Immigration

[Lucille]

There has been recent controversy on the subject of immigration. There are compelling arguments on each side, and it is a subject that touches all of us, directly or indirectly.
I am considering writing an article about the subject, and I would appreciate hearing your views.

[reptilebreeder]

Here in CA, they have been demonstrating for 3 or 4 days now. I would be more sympathetic to their cause if they 1. Were demonstrating responsibly. IE, not walking down the middle of roads. 2. not ditching school. For a lot of the people it's just an excuse not to go to school. They are costing the schools hundreds of thousands. 3. Loose the Mexican flags. This one bothers me the most. They are here in the US protesting about laws and illegal immigration in this country. They are saying they love this country that they work hard, etc., but this is the US. I can understand loving your own country, but you don't protest the LAWS, and opinions of those in this country by throwing the flag of a different country in our face.
As far as my arguments and opinions on the actual subject of immigration, I don't have time to post that, maybe later on today or next couple days.

[ZenReptiles]

I don't know how I feel on this subject because my grandparents are immigrants from Poland and Sicily. But they also fought in WWI and WWII for the US. That to me is like the ultimate thank you for allowing them to move here. I do get kinda annoyed though when illegal immigrants are here and are working illegally.

[Junkyard]

Along with the waving of flags, they also hold up signs with America crossed out.

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the protesters say they want to take back California for Mexico.

I do not appreciate the teacher down the street leading the demonstrators and not doing his job teaching the children back in a classroom where he should be.

It should not be a surprised to anyone that these demonstrations begin and end during the school hours, once school is over they are done.

The schools are sending buses to pick up students at their rallies to give them a ride home. We now have the schools supporting illegal immigration.

The demonstrators are disrupting and blocking traffic, so the police provide a parade route for the protesters.

At a local park, parents formed a human wall to keep the police from being able to reach the students.

The protesters do not know what they are protesting for, they do not know what they bill says, heck some do not even know how a bill is passed to become a law.

Some of the protesters are illegal themselves breaking our laws and telling us we need to change the laws.

This bill does not only apply to Mexicans, there are far more other than Mexican illegals here than there are Mexicans. Though many of the protesters do not realize that.

Those are a few of the things bothering me about the protesters. I do stand up for our right to free speech, I stand up for my own freedom and the freedom of others. If one wants to come here legally so we have documentation of who they are and were they are staying, great allow them in. Allow them to pay taxes also. Let them have a better life. Though do it the right way. Our boarder patrol is already being attacked for doing their job, they certainly are not happy about these rallies.

We are already the only country in the world that provides so much more to illegal immigrants. We do so much for the world, but that is not enough, they want more. Imagine what will happen if we open our boarders to the world. imagine the influx that would occur, we would be engulfed to the point that we will not be able to care for ourselves. It is bad enough I have to pay so much for insurance, yet illegals get it for free.

How high will our taxes get? How many more will file for unemployment? how many more will go on welfare for the tax payers to care for? How many more will come into our country with the intent to kill us? It is bad enough 19 people were able to come here and kill 3,000 some people. Will it take only 19 more? Will there be one with a bomb strapped to him that is a known terrorist, yet was given free access because a bunch of people from another country told us we were not being nice enough? Will other countries freely open their boarders to us? Will Mexico freely open its boarders? What other country allowes people that are not native born citizens to own land in that country?

maybe I am being a little too harsh. I would like to know what is wrong with the bill H.R.4437. Maybe someone can help me understand why we should not protect our own people. Here is a link the bill in question: H.R.4437 (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.04437:)

Just a few thoughts of mine, I am sure there will be more.

[dirty_harry]

This is a real "powderkeg" of a question. There really is very little (if any) middle ground, and people tend to strongly detest the opinions of their opposition.

The main thing that bothers me the most is that I can already see is this will probabky cost some American jobs. There is a section that seems to suggest that migrant workers are ok, under the condition that its not a job that an American would do. The immediate problem i see with such a situation would be an example as such:

Imagine you have a field of corn. The corn is ready to be picked, and its 100 degrees out. Do you think there will be any Americans willing to work for less than $5 an hour to go out there and pick the corn... no there probably won't be. BUT, would a properly trained American be willing to get paid $20 an hour to reap the field in an air conditioned cab of a harvester??? Probably!

[Rebel Dragons]

My sister has a friend named Zuly. Her mother Zula has been in the US for almost 20 years and has yet to get citizenship. They live in section 8 housing (the rent for them is $6.00 a month), they get food stamps, cash assistance and all that jazz. Zula works full time and supports 2 kids but gets to keep 100% of her earnings. Why??? Because she doesn't have to pay income tax. Apparently there is a law here in the states that stipulates if she goes back to Mexico and stays for 14 days once every 5 years she can continue to remain a Mexican citizen and return as a legal immigrant. THIS IN MY OPINION IS A LOAD OF CRAP. She makes more than I do and doesn't have to pay a penny in taxes, buy her own grocery's, pay rent or anything. We pay 20+% in taxes every week to pay her rent and feed her kids. And she is one of thousands of people I imagine do this. :>Puke<:

I fully support immigration to the states but I feel that those people should have to pay the same taxes and obey the same laws that I do for the benefits and freedoms I get. To see people acting like hooligans and such, bad mouthing this country that gives them so much, makes me sick to my stomach.

I tell ya what, I'd take a 2 week vacation to Mexico to avoid paying taxes ANYTIME. :hehe:

[Bar None Reptiles]

I am with you on that Mike. It sickens me to see how easy others have it when our own citizens and taxpayers are getting it in the behind. An old friend of mine who I was taking care of became ill with Leukemia. We spent hours at Social Services trying to get him on Medicaid or any type of assistance. What I saw there made me more angry the longer I stayed as person after person walked in. They were handing them all sorts of benefits and rewards for coming here illegally and popping out a kid. Meanwhile, my friend who was in the military, paid all of his taxes, who before this illness came upon him, made an honest living, did everything we are suppose to, and they gave him next to nothing. He didn't get his rent paid. He had to use the entirety of his Social Security check to pay the rent. He only got maybe $100 a month for food, and Medicaid assistance. So where was he suppose to come up with the co-pays for his prescriptions, doctor visits. How was he suppose to get there. Is that how you repay a veteran? He would have been much better off being an illegal immigrant than an honest citizen.

[PaulSage]

I'm just glad that I live here in the US instead of living in one of the countries many of our immigrants come from.


(and that's all I have to say about that.)

[ZenReptiles]

That is horrible! My mother has been very ill for the past 4 years or so. After she had a stroke while working, she was forced to quit her job and lost her medical insurance. She was an RN and unfortunately that's not really a job she could continue in her condition. She started getting SS checks in the amount of $600 a month, but that didn't even make a dent in her medical bills, so my parents had to take out a second mortgage on their house. My dad works fulltime as a CAD engineer, but doesn't really make all that much, so now they are struggling to keep their house. My mom was refused Medicaid and any other social assistance because my dad made too much. My father was in the airforce during vietnam and even tried using the fact that he was a vet to get assistance with no luck. My mom recently tried to kill herself to try and put my family out of the financial burden of her being sick, and that's not right. It wasn't her fault she became sick.
That really sucks that someone who doesn't pay taxes and doesn't even belong to this country can still accept all the benefits that should only go to people who live here legally. They'll just keep having more kids and taking the free ride as long as they can. Great policy......

[Golden Gate Geckos]

With the exception of Native Americans, all of us are descendants of immigrants. America holds the promise of a better life for many people around the globe. I am all for immigration. LEGAL immigration, that is. My Irish grandparents came here the way immigrants were supposed to... by boats that ushered them to Ellis Island where they were processed legally into this country, and later they proudly became American citizens. I feel that all of the illegal aliens that are here should have to do it the same way that every other immigrant has to!

[Traci1]

I just received this in an email...in my opinion this still should apply today!

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

[dirty_harry]

I am with you on that Mike. It sickens me to see how easy others have it when our own citizens and taxpayers are getting it in the behind. An old friend of mine who I was taking care of became ill with Leukemia. We spent hours at Social Services trying to get him on Medicaid or any type of assistance. What I saw there made me more angry the longer I stayed as person after person walked in. They were handing them all sorts of benefits and rewards for coming here illegally and popping out a kid. Meanwhile, my friend who was in the military, paid all of his taxes, who before this illness came upon him, made an honest living, did everything we are suppose to, and they gave him next to nothing. He didn't get his rent paid. He had to use the entirety of his Social Security check to pay the rent. He only got maybe $100 a month for food, and Medicaid assistance. So where was he suppose to come up with the co-pays for his prescriptions, doctor visits. How was he suppose to get there. Is that how you repay a veteran? He would have been much better off being an illegal immigrant than an honest citizen.

That is a disgrace to treat a vet that way. I personally think that all of our service members when in a situation like that should have each and every last cent taken care of for them. ESPECIALLY if they are combat vets. These brave men and women have quite literally put their lives on the line. Its the least the government could do.

[molurusbreedingcente]

I like lots of diverse people from lots of other countries but only to visit here and spend money in our economy. I go to their countries and spend hard earned dollars in their economy. Everytime I drive to Mexico to go look for herps I have to buy expensive car insurance, have a credit card that they record on the Mexican side so I will not sell my car at a large profit in their country. We can have a legal, guest worker program but they have to purchase health insurance and car insurance at the border and can only come in for the time the job contract calls for. This would be a thriving border business for the US side and we would be bringing in badly needed cash to lower the national debt etc.

The argument about we are all imigrents here does not hold up if one researches history. All lands north, east,west and south of Africa where the Homo Sapiens migrated from without regard to a Visa are illegally occupied. If the ratioale is that America is not really our "homeland" then the Germans have no Germany, French have no France. When "we" decendents of people that took what they wanted by the politically correct method at that time in history called "winning the war" have our fatherland, motherland, and noone without fighting another war for domination can take it from us.

Now there is not enough of the pie for everyone to let millions more flood in from irresponsible governments that want us to take care of their poor while they spend public funds at the Casino living the good life. One cannot breath the word conservation and greenspace, protect areas for wildlife, in the same breath with one without addressing the other. If a country is frugal, limits population and protects lands for future generations, it is for nawght and diluted like a good whisky with 90% water till it is so sub-par it no longer has value to anyone or anything.

It amazes me that so many people that are here working for low-paying jobs and living the Wal-Mart dream to survive, want to bring in more people to compete with them for the low-paying job pool!!!! They are shooting themselves in the foot! I worked for a company in Texas that once a week would send me down to the corner with instructions to find some "workers to dig, water, or whatever" guess what, when there were only 2 to hire they paid close to the minimum wage of the times with a few perks. When the next time the block was full and all hands were raised when the yell went over the crowd "who wants to work today???" The price dropped by at least a dollar to two dollars under minimum without any perks. Go see the movie "Cinderella Man" if you want a glimpse into what Americans went through in the depression when 50 lined up for a job and they only selected 3 for the day. No one asked "how much are you paying" simple supply and demand - a no brainer - you would think these workers would catch on at some point.

We need a wall, we need a catapult. Gee where did I see that, maybe on Monty Python.

Remember, I still like the great food, I still like your culture, please respect my homeland and stay on your side of the fence.

[Ian S.]

Uhhh.... Everyone is aware that America isn't exactly growing, on a geological scale right. If anything America is shrinking in size and will continue to shrink if the tectonic plates have their way. Right along with the rising oceanic temperatures that are melting away the arctic glaciers, causing massive hurricanes that are putting large bodies of land under water, right along with the tsunami's and earthquakes. Point proven yet. :) I hate to get off topic here but We have every diverse, ecological climate you can think of on this wonderful continent so you can kinda say that theirs a little something for everyone here. Not to mention the freedom aspect. Everyone wants to be, and I emphasize the word "Free" because everyone should be, but America can't hold the world. The topic of immigration, legal or not, in America is a much larger problem than....well.... immigration here in America. We as Americans can't help but to think so shallow cause frankly we are. Think of it like a spoiled child. We all know that every country has it's problems but for christ sakes people need to live and their F- bombed (governments) <---(men with guns) are not allowing them to. I don't have anymore solutions or answers than the next person. I do have some ideas, and for starters, I'll admitt to my ignorance and ask if anyone happens to know the percentage of ethnic groups immigrating and which countries these people are fleeing, only then we can work on why they are fleeing in the first place. I say we start sending some immigrants to France since they were so helpful with the Iraq situation. :rolleyes:

[dirty_harry]

Supposedly a "comprimise" on this issue is being worked out in Congress as we speak... they are planning to have some type of comprimise hammered out by Friday...

[esoteric-lizard]

i say if they get amnesty, its a mandatory 2 year enlistment in the armed forces for the first child born in the USA or the oldest one alive at time of citizenship.

the American flag has red on its stripes for some symbolic reason!!

[grunt]

ask someone from mexico what happens when a person from a lower country illegaly gets into that country. They get shot ! thats what happens and it just happened about a week ago.Granted killing the people coming into this country would cost us a lot of money just in ammunition nevermind the shit we would get from every other country but damn it we cant keep letting people into this country that are not willing to be citizens and help improve our Country.My grandfather came here from portugal and gave up speeking the portugeuse language had way to many kids but only taught them the english language, he would not have it any other way he was proud to become a citizen of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and hung a flag out in front of his house until the day he died in 1965.

[DAND]

There are rules set in place for a reason. Anyone remember 9/11? Personally I think the boarders should be slammed shut. There are more than enough people here in this country.

To sneak in like vermin and then talk down about the country they are infesting is ludicrous.

[old guy]

immigration of Mexico at least in west Texas and probably other parts. It doesn't seem to stop at just illegal immigrants down here but the wave of trafficking drugs as well. See the movie " Scarface " with Pacino. Based on a true factual story of actually Mexico and not Cuba so much even though it was with some truth of Cuban refugees from that countries government. While the Minuit men ( didn't think that organization was still around or active ) is being sent to Arizona, Texas is deemed as the next place of the " BIG FENCE ". I've heard of around the Big Bend region in which has had a long history of illegals and long history of contraband. Even though much more of the illegal part of the aliens are more effluent of places of Texas like Brownsville, Laredo, and El Paso, it seems the drugs coming in is more of the isolate places of the Big Bend area. This has me suspecting it's not all with the illegal immigrant thing but of the trafficking drug thing as well. So is our government telling everything ?

[coyote]

I hate the term "Native" American. I was born here, my parents were born here, their parents were born here, their parents were born here....
I consider myself "native" to (North) America.

The American Indian people did not originate in the New World, they did not evolve here, they immigrated also. They just got here long, I mean loooong before Europeans. The American Indian people spent several hundreds of years invading, slaughtering, removing and taking territory from each other. Granted the Europeans, themselves, employed some shameful and repugnant methods for gaining the upper hand in that ancient game.

BTW, my son is half Chippewa-Cree.

The lifestyle, and any economic or social advantages(?) of the USA are not a debt owed to anyone and everyone that decides they want to make a collection. Illegal is not an ambiguous concept. Why should some criminals be forgiven their crimes AND be allowed to profit from them while other criminals are justifiably given over to the Criminal Justice System?

Why would any sane, rational person be willing to subsidize "favored" criminals with sacrifices from the fruits of their labor (taxes)?

I don't usually give much credibility to Newt Gingrich, but he had some excellent ideas on managing immigrant workers and anyone wanting citizenship. No forgiveness, no amnesty for any illegal regardless of how long they have been able to continue in the crime. All illegals should be allowed to return to their country of origin and apply legally for worker status. No entry until the entire process is complete--background check, ID card with an iris scan and fingerprints.

The issue of deporting illegals who have had children while in the US, thus separating families, was mentioned. It was proposed that such enforcement would be cruel and unfair. Well, criminals are separated from their families all the time. Again, why should illegal immigrants be a special class of criminal?

Yep, this is pretty much a black or white issue and emotions run high on both sides. So what? Criminals are people who break laws and burden law abiding citzens--the very citizens that pay for the infrastructure. There should be no special, favored class of criminal.

My position, no amnesty for illegals. Proper, effective management of legal workers--YES. Fair, equal policies for citizenship--Definitely.