National Right-to-carry Reciprocity Bill

[dirty_harry]

I think i can already see how this thread is going to go, but this is something that i feel *VERY* strongly about, so I am going to post it anyway. Personally, I believe that this is one of the best pieces of legislation to be considered (and hopefully passed) in a long time.

U.S. Representative Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) recently introduced H.R. 4547-a national Right-to-Carry (RTC) reciprocity bill that would honor state carry licensees nationwide. The bill would allow any person with a valid carry permit or license issued by a state to carry a concealed firearm in any other state if they meet certain criteria. The bill would not create a federal licensing system; it would simply require the states to recognize each other's carry permits, just as they recognize drivers' licenses.

I strongly urge anyone and everyone to contact your representative to urge that they pass this bill with no amendments as quickly as possible.

I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this both pro's and cons. And please... lets keep it civil.

[Lucille]

I think it's a terrific idea. I think if the states computerize and honor reciprocity, it will cut out huge trainloads of useless paperwork that has nothing to do with carrying, but does frustrate and confuse everyone.

There are some states with more stringent requirements for their own citizens and I can see them putting up a fuss, and that is a hurdle to successful completion of this concept.

But the concept itself rocks.

[INSANE CANES]

I sure hope it passes.
There are already a few states that do this already.
Not sure of which ones they are exactly.
I have had my CWP for 16 years or so now, and would vote for it, if i could.

Good post.

[reptilebreeder]

Yes, that would be awesome if it passed.

[dirty_harry]

wow... i was half expecting an immediate flame war erupting against me, LOL. I agree, i really think that it will be great that legal, law abiding citizens would finally be able to exercise their RIGHT to be able to protect themselves, family and friends wherever they go, and not have to worry about a myriad of laws when crossing state lines.

I think alot of the more strict states would likely also back down and enable more people to get a license. this would be great for people in CA, where permits are VERY RARELY issued. I remember hearing that there are only about 4 (four)... but i know that of those that have been issued, ironically Feinstien owns one of them.... surprise, surprise!

[reptilebreeder]

wow... i was half expecting an immediate flame war erupting against me, LOL. I agree, i really think that it will be great that legal, law abiding citizens would finally be able to exercise their RIGHT to be able to protect themselves, family and friends wherever they go, and not have to worry about a myriad of laws when crossing state lines.

I think alot of the more strict states would likely also back down and enable more people to get a license. this would be great for people in CA, where permits are VERY RARELY issued. I remember hearing that there are only about 4 (four)... but i know that of those that have been issued, ironically Feinstien owns one of them.... surprise, surprise!Feinstien...thanks, I just had lunch. If you look in the dictionary under hypocrisy it probably shows a picture of every member of congress, but her picture would be the head cheese. She makes me sick. Anyway, CA gun laws are the worst, still waiting to see if the San Fransisco ban on all weapons inside city limits is going to hold up. CWP are issued by the Sheriffs of each county, big city politician sheriffs like those in SF, and LA county probably issue very few, but some counties, like mine which is mostly a rural farming county, there are actually quite a few CWP's issued.

[PaulSage]

Wisconsin tried to pass this idea a month or so ago, and it failed. I'm not an avid gun collector (just have a few antiques) but I was kinda hoping it would have passed. I got the impression that the state was not confident of it's own competence when it came to efficiently and accurately issuing CWP's to law-abiding citizens. They were probably right.

[INSANE CANES]

wow... i was half expecting an immediate flame war erupting against me, LOL.

Well don't wanna disappoint you.

:flamethr: :flamethr: :flamethr: :flamethr:

You've been flamed. :rofl: :rofl:

[dirty_harry]

Feinstien...thanks, I just had lunch. If you look in the dictionary under hypocrisy it probably shows a picture of every member of congress, but her picture would be the head cheese. She makes me sick. Anyway, CA gun laws are the worst, still waiting to see if the San Fransisco ban on all weapons inside city limits is going to hold up. CWP are issued by the Sheriffs of each county, big city politician sheriffs like those in SF, and LA county probably issue very few, but some counties, like mine which is mostly a rural farming county, there are actually quite a few CWP's issued.


haha, yeah sorry about that... bad name to bring up around lunchtime... i had to edit my "draft" of my first response, because it is REALLY difficult for me to not mention her name :ack2: both preceeded and followed by a string of "colorful" words :uzi:

Its true though, pretty much any politician has a major janus complex going on, but boy she just makes my blood BOIL! ::takes sedatives::

I forget where i originally got that statistic about her and having a permit... it may just be the county/town/locality she is in has one, of which she is a one of the few holders.

As far as the citywide ban, it was defeated before, and I hope the politicians/courts will do the right thing and defeat it again. It really couldn't be anymore unconstitutional unless they simultaneously removed the right to free speech and to vote at the same time. Its been documented and proven time and time again... The only thing laws like that will do is disarm legal, law abiding citizens... criminals don't care if there is a law against having weapons, they are going to have them anyway- hence the term criminal.... As a matter of fact, they would probably PREFER that there was such a law, so that they would know whenever they are robbing somebody, that person won't have a gun too!!!

Well don't wanna disappoint you...


Haha, thanks, SOMEBODY had to do it :)

[Lucille]

Its true though, pretty much any politician has a major janus complex going on,

I do not think that is true. I think like anywhere else you have good people and people who aren't.
But you use a broad brush here; there are some people who give their lives in public service, to help others.

[dirty_harry]

I do not think that is true. I think like anywhere else you have good people and people who aren't.
But you use a broad brush here; there are some people who give their lives in public service, to help others.


lucille, stop being so logical! :rofl: I know I used a really broad brush, but rather than point out individual politicians I'm not a big fan of (other than Feinstein) i figured i'd keep it simple. You are right though, there are those who have a genuine desire and drive to help others! I just wish they were ALL like that!

[tarantulakeeper]

I looked through the sponsor list and noticed no congressman from Arizona has signed on. I'll email my rep with the suggestion he do so since Az has a ccw law. I got mine early in the process and I know our legislature is looking to reduce the renewal requirement.

I am a little confused (not being a lawyer) how a federal law would supercede a state's rights to limit concealed carry. Wouldn't this go right to the courts as a state's rights issue? I might not be breaking federal law (saying this passed) in California, but I might be breaking California law.

Any lawyers out there?

John

[eric adrignola]

I'm all for concealed carry permits. Don't have one yet, but I'm going
to get one sooner or later. I dont' know the details of the bill, but
woudl it force ALL states to recognize the permits from other states?

To me, that sounds bad.

If if is a bill that makes all states WITH CC permits recognize all other
states' CC permits, that's fine - that's good Federal government work
there - easing the interstate commerce and legislation.

But to force a state that doesnt' want to have CC permits to accept
those from other states isn't good. That's the Fed overstepping its
bounds.

I'm sure the bill just makes all states WITH the CC laws recognize each
other. That's good.

[dirty_harry]

I'm all for concealed carry permits. Don't have one yet, but I'm going
to get one sooner or later. I dont' know the details of the bill, but
woudl it force ALL states to recognize the permits from other states?
.......


Actually... i think there are only about 3 states left with no conceal carry laws whatsoever, and most of them are working on something anyways.... basically the law would do the same thing as they did with driver's licenses years ago, and made it so every state would have to honor the license of another state.

[reptilebreeder]

I'm all for concealed carry permits. Don't have one yet, but I'm going
to get one sooner or later. I dont' know the details of the bill, but
woudl it force ALL states to recognize the permits from other states?

To me, that sounds bad.

If if is a bill that makes all states WITH CC permits recognize all other
states' CC permits, that's fine - that's good Federal government work
there - easing the interstate commerce and legislation.

But to force a state that doesnt' want to have CC permits to accept
those from other states isn't good. That's the Fed overstepping its
bounds.

I'm sure the bill just makes all states WITH the CC laws recognize each
other. That's good.Actually in my humble opinion, as this deals with the second amendment to the CONSTITUTION, it is the feds who would be in the right, and the states that don't allow it, in the wrong. So this would be just streamlining what should be a RIGHT (which should not be up to individual states)to begin with. JMHO

[Junkyard]

This would be interesting to have passed in Los Angeles. The first two weeks there will be a flood of people going to the local hospitals ER's. Los Angeles has issued ONE concealed weapon permit in 30 years to a civilian. I am sure LA would allow other statesman to carry, but not their own.

[WebSlave]

Speaking of Feinstein, I think the woman is a few cards short of a full deck.

Just this week I was reading an article in Gun Week magazine where she wrote a letter to the acting commissioner of the U.S. Border Patrol concerning the easy availability of .50BMG rifles. Her "concern" is with the threat of snipers in Mexico being able to use such weapons to fire at border patrol officers.

She states:
I have long been concerned about this issue and have introduced legislation which would, at least, address the problem by treating these weapons under the same regulations that govern machine guns, rather than .22-caliber rifles as is presently the law.

Well EXCUSE ME, but since when can a US Senator do a damn thing about what Mexico does within it's own borders? How is her proposed legislation going to restrict Mexicans from being able to procure and use such firearms if they choose to do so?

It never fails to amaze me why our "representatives" in Congress apparently don't have to take a basic intelligence test in order to qualify for their job. Or maybe drug testing would be in order.......

[Junkyard]

As long as you have money to spend on banners and ads. Drug testing, you know that would not do a thing to stop our congress. Heck, you can kill someone and still be in congress because you are in relation to someone else.

[dirty_harry]

Speaking of Feinstein, I think the woman is a few cards short of a full deck.......

AMEN... i have been saying this for years ::resists urge to write profanity laden diatribe on what a "bleepity-bleep-bleeper" i think she is::


This would be interesting to have passed in Los Angeles. The first two weeks there will be a flood of people going to the local hospitals ER's.

.........


It has been documented time and time again here in the US that this is usually the FEAR and what people always say will happen, but never does. Typically whenever these laws are passed chootings and crime goes DOWN. Why? If you are a criminal, normally, an 80 year old woman is going to be pretty easy prey... now on the other hand if this law is passed, as a criminal you'd have to think twice... that same 80 year old woman might just slap iron on your butt now if you go to rob her. :uzi:

[cyberfrog]

IF all of the sudden everyone in LA had a magnum under their car seat IMO the crime problem there would sort itself out within say 6-8 weeks. I would feel bad for the hospital staffs, but plenty of housing would open up and the property values would rise in alot of areas. Sounds like a win-win. As far as Federal Law superceding state laws it already does, everything from the seat belt laws(no federal highway funding w/o seat belt laws) and the whole marjiuana legalisation issue.

[eric adrignola]

Now that you mention it - such a bill wouldn't be against state's rights. It's the states that are infringing on our right to bear arms. They dont' HAVE a right to deny reciprocity.

God, I would actually consider a road trip to California just to walk around savoring it all.

[Junkyard]

Bob M, I agree. In a way though, this would really stink for many people that live here. Those that live out of state can carry, but those that live here cannot.

Goodness, I need to move!!

[reptilebreeder]

Goodness, I need to move!!here! here! I've lived here since I was a little kid, but I've had enough of CA. It's kind of sad actually as I love living where I do...2 hours from LA, 2.25 from SF, 2 from the coast and 2 or less (half hour to the foothills for decent herping) to the high sierras or Yosemite. It's the rude people, the politics of the majority, the population explosion, the laws....I could go on forever. I've stayed for my daughters, but the past 5 years or so, I've been really itching to move. Now that my daughters are 19, and one of them will be moving to Belgium :bawling: in Sept. (her fiance is stationed there), I've really been seriously considering moving........problem is where? I lived in Tempe (a suberb of Phoenix, AZ) for two years and loved it, but that was friggin 20 years ago! (man I'm gettin old). By now they probably have all the same problems....oh well.

[dirty_harry]

Bob M, I agree. In a way though, this would really stink for many people that live here. Those that live out of state can carry, but those that live here cannot.

Goodness, I need to move!!


Technically, there are several states that have "shall issue" laws on the books for non-resident persons, which would be an interesting way to get around it. Several states already have reciprocity laws with other states, but it is nowhere near the level that it should be.

The fact of the matter is that several states have been overstepping the constitutional boundaries for years, and this would simply (mostly) fix that. Owning, keeping, and bearing arms is a RIGHT. No matter how much people want to tell you otherwise, there is a reason the second amendment is in a document called "the Bill of RIGHTS."