Oxalates in Solomon Island Skink diet

[serraticauda]

Given that this species seems to deal with oxalates better than other reptiles, is it safe to introduce other high-oxalate greens other than pothos. Specifically spinach andd wild dandylions ? I've stayed away from those thus-far, but it seems that they would tolerate them well.

[Brian - LCRC]

No to spinach which prevents calcium absorption. No to wild dandelions as well. I wouldn't risk it in lieu of our overuse of pesticides, etc.

Since you're in San Francisco (where I was born & raised incidentally), you have access to some wonderful Asian markets where they have fresh dandelion greens which is great for Corucia. They also have other unique & beneficial produce that you can research on to find a much varied diet for your skinks.

By the way, Corucia get all the protein they need from their greens & veggies! Don't worry too much on that issue. Also, may I suggest pothos as a treat rather than including it in their diet on a daily basis if this is what you meant in your above post.

Sincerely,

Sherri

[serraticauda]

I use a combination of asian greens (pea greens, water spinach, sweet potato greens are the three favorites) along with dandylion greens. I also gove them cruciferous greens but the do not like them, so I shred them into my other greens. The chinese water spinach (not spinach, but in the ipomea (morning glory) family) seems to be particularly loved.
I give pothos, but I grow my own indoors and its hard to feed everyone!
The wild dandylions at the time were from my yard and hence pesticide free, but I used them mainly for my iguana when I had her.

Thanks for all the info !,

Phil

[serraticauda]

I was wondering if I misunderstood your previous post discussing digestion. How is it that the oxalates in pothos are different in those of spinach and other oxalate rich greens. As I understand it, oxalates are the cause of hypocalcemia with spinach because the free form of the oxalate molecule binds calcium ions in the bloodstream. If they can metabolize the oxalates in pothos, they should be able to do the same with spinach, dandylions, and other oxalate rich plants. It would be interesting to see the oxalate content of their endemic diet, or even to run serial ionized calciums after eating spinach to see if the oxalates do scavange calcium.

Phil

[Sherri - LCRC]

Hi Phil,

You got confused between Brian & I. When I signed on this morning, I didn't realize the Fauna log-in was in Brian's name. I will pass your question on to him & he'll respond because I didn't submit some of the material & therefore haven't followed thru on what he's doing. (we take turns, LOL!) I think you're doing fine with the diet you described. Hang in there!

I sure miss good old SF! Hope everything is as great as I remember. Haven't been there to visit in 5 years.

Take care,

Sherri

[Brian - LCRC]

Hello Phil,

Good question you presented on the comparative similarities and differences on calcium oxalates. Corucia, as we well know have developed countermeasures to handle the toxins in Epipremium aureum (underlined) {pothos}. Plants such as Pothos and possibly spinach have developed the means by way of special chemicals to defend themselves. Animals with no immunity to these toxins have calcium bind-up as well as irritation to the mucus membranes, particularily in the mouth and throat. Any other reptile period given pothos is detrimental. Spinach is also frowned upon. A good friend of mine, Ron Dupont of Wild Cargo, tried Pothos himself as an experiment and became deathly ill. Corucia consumes a related Pothos species in the Solomon archipelago as a common means of nutrition without any deliterious effects. Could they handle spinach as well? Maybe. Would I recommend anyone to experiment with these endangered, precious animals to find out? Absolutely not. Are the oxalates in spinach different than that in Pothos? I do not have an answer for you at this time.

Also, broccoli on a regular basis may not be a good plan to follow. They contain Goitrogens and according to Melissa Kaplan, can impair thyroid function.

Sincerely,
Brian
LCRC

[serraticauda]

Yes I know about the goiterogens, though even after 20+ years of warnings, there is not substantiation in the literature as to toxicity of the cruciforms in reptiles - I use them sparingly.
All oxalates are the same, btw, though other toxins in plants may vary. Spinach's mechanism of damage is through oxalates only, so there should be no problem with spinach if there is none with pothos. I am not asking because I want to use spinach in my skinks - so far I have not. However, there are many other plants out there with high oxalate content (?ie - alphalpha, dandylions) and it would be good to know if it was a problem. An easy way to test would be to feed pothos to one group, spinach to a second and a non-oxalate green to the third, then do serial ionized calciums. If all match, then the oxalates do not have significant calcium scavanging capacity. You need to check the ionized calcium, not the total. Granted these are valuable animals, but I doubt that short term feeding of any green with oxalates will cause a problem in even sensitive species like a green iguana. Many greens have some oxalate content so it is an important question to ask.
Anyways, I have always followed the rule of sparing use of cruciforms, and no spinach for all herbivores I have raised, and intent to stick to this.
Also, have you used chinese water spinach (ipomea aquatica) in PTSs and do you know anything about oxalate content in this species. they love it and it is cheap seasonally.

Phil

[Brian - LCRC]

Hello Phil,


Thank you for the private reply, your advice, and your candor. You have been helpful to us as well. Absolutely, your kind offer of advice is welcomed and we are of service to help you too, if needed.

On the Chinese water spinach, We, at present, live in the boonies, so access to such products is not feasible at the present time or we would have to travel many miles to acquire. I personally travel 121 miles one way to work (I pass through 8 counties). For instance, if one likes to eat Kimchee (which Korean is Sherri's favorite cuisine - her passion other than Corucia is culinary pursuits!), it takes over 100 miles one way to obtain the ingredients.

Best regards,
Brian and Sherri
LCRC