have you seen my karma rating ? LOL that's just ridiculous. am i really that bad?

I do not use the system.

Again I will type it slow. Free handling a gabby at the hamburg show happened at a show THIS YEAR! THIS THIS YEAR! I was at Al's table and another person and I looked at what you or another helper was doing and shook are heads. Again it was THIS YEAR! One more time THIS YEAR.

Oh I have talked to the DR..... He said that yes they could repair and produce venom again if the surgery was not done correctly. This convo happened about a year and a half ago.

I ask you why do you hold the only vet that does this surgery one a level of never making a mistake. I ask you this not him. You seem to think he will never make a mistake. I say he is human and should let people buying these animals know that it could happen.

You are the one that comes to the forums to talk about this vet. So maybe he shoudl come here and chat............. Why in private?

What is ridiculous? That one person saw fit to give one of your posts a negative rating?

I'm just sad I don't get any love here :shootfoot

lol
love might be a little strong...but I really don't mind you
(considering that we are on opposite sides of this fence, that's all I can give you)

I know where you stand, you know where I stand...as long as we aren't throwing things at each other, it doesn't matter

There is only one gabby that is an adult and it was sold a few weeks ago. That snake has not been at the hamburg show this year. However, our two gabinos have been at the show this year. They are subadults and look like gabbies, maybe that's what you are talking about. I remember holding our gabino earlier this year when the show closed and a vendor at the show wanted to take a photograph and I had the snake. Was the person wearing a hat? If so, that was me. Anyway, the bottom line is that if you saw me or someone behind the table I doubt the snake was within reach of potential buyers, children, or people looking at our table, but if you have a different opinion or a better perspective from where you were sitting, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are 100%. A viper was held during a show and it was yet another mistake. Has that happened again? probably no. why? because I personally do not want 2" fangs stuck in my hand or the same for someone looking at the snake.

As far as why Dr. Sabatini coming here, I think that's very easy to answer. He works a F/T job at a hospital, has a personal responsibilities and needs to keep up by himself with several orders for venomoids and respond to people who are interested buyers. I have been posting for about a week here and if I were the business owner, would that give me a benefit? no. why? because A) i know i can't change your mind and i'm not trying to and i also know you are not going to buy a venomoid. B) most people who respond negatively here are not ever going to buy a venomoid rather they want attention. With that said, if I were the owner i wouldn't waste my time, but i could possibly answer the phone and have a short to the point conversation. Since you already did that, then you got your answer.

Why do I post here? Actually, I like debating the issue in a professional manner and I don't let it get to me if someone makes allegations, calls me names, or anything like that. Trust me I had a person back in 2005 send me a PM making personal threats, but that's just silly. I like debating the issue because it gives the topic more publicity and since I know i can present my opinions very clear, then i have nothing to fabricate to give any false claims. The only thing I cannot answer and all I have been doing is giving you examples on how i would do it if i were a business owner are the questions you guys have about Venomoid, Inc, release of liability or whatever you want to call the document provided to buyers, and veterinary malpractice. I believe those are issues that to know the answer you have to contact the vet. Since you already did, then why continue debating them? What's your next question Gary?

btw, you never called me man! I would like to talk. I'm devenomized, I won't kill you. :)

it's a little late now, but give me call at
1-888-DEVENOMIZED

couldn't agree w/ you better mr. moore. maybe we can agree on other subjects

i ran across this thread and have been debating wether to reply to it or not. i have no intention of getting into the venomiod verses non debate and this is my opinion and mine alone.

first off i trained for over a yr before i got into hots started with rattlers went to elapids. fell in love, to this day no python, corn, etc has ever come close to a cobra or mamba, just the way they act in a captive inviroment is just unreal. i especially love african naja. especially of all things spitters. when my ex wife told me she was pregnant i was working on getting a breeding sized male banded egyptian for my female. now than at this point the thought of a venomiod never crossed my mind. but along comes kid(not using him as an excuse, nore looking down at those that have kids and keep hots just not my thing.) so out went the collection. the way i keep my animals while safe and very secure. i did not trust it or my room to be kid proof so choose not to risk it.

well a couple of yrs go buy and i come upon a great deal on a venomiod monocled, and i thought to my self why not, i missed keeping cobras it was a good deal (for a venomiod) so i bought it. now it is time i explain my personal thoughts on keeping a venomiod and the things you really should do if you keep them. first thing is treat them as if they were venomous, this goes for housing access, handling etc. than you should test the venomiod every so often. my proceedure was twice a yr put a live rat in there let the snake bite it a couple of times pull out the rat and put in a cage leave over night. in the morning if its still alive you have a successful venomiod. if its dead well you know what happened *the whole point of this thread*

actually owned that same cobra for almost 6 yrs till last yr when work was sending me to hawaii for 6months and work was talking about making it permanant *thank god it wasn't* so i sold off all my stuff. in all that time every rat turned up live in the morning, my son who is now 4 and has no interest in the kingsnake that i got him, he wants to play with of all things my scrub( kids go figure) he is still alive and has shown that he can be trusted not to open cages etc., but for his safety and my peace i will only bring venomiods into my house/ at this point in time.

if you cannot handle venomous you have no reason owning venomiods period. venomiods just add a degree of, i hate to use this phrase but words fail me, but it adds a degree of peace of mindo or safety to the whole experiance, because lets face it wether you admit or not, or wether you have been lucky so far, accidents do happen, your kids will open that shed door while you are fighting a 7 ft really pissed cobra. they happen. for me venomiods are a viable option for those who have kept venomous but because of current circumstances can't ( assuming you are in the right according to you laws.)

now this is based on a surgery being down by a vet and both glands and ducts are removed using proper techniques and drugs.
i do not support home grown venomiods backyard surgeans etc. they should be shot or tortured depending on preferance.

owning a venomiod is in no means a way to get a hot and not treat it like one. i beleave getting a venomiod is a personal choice and by no mean excuses the person the of getting the proper training prior to getting one.

and in lue of the "rat test" you can always milk it to. i just have issues milking snakes. just a personal thing.