:iagree:
If I'm reading it right, there's been mites in her collection on and off since early 2009, and the mites are STILL a problem. Makes me wonder if they've been there all along.

I know mites are a biotch to get rid of, but there's NO excuse for this problem to be ongoing for that long.

If the snakes have mites, you shouldn't be dragging them out every other day for photos, and dragging them off to pet stores for "reptile education" http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/gia...burm-pics.html :rolleyes_

I completely understand the anger & frustration on Adrya's part. She has been experiencing all of this firsthand in her own collection.

This is certainly NOT the first place all this was brought out, it's been mentioned several times over the last couple of years, and callously ignored, and business as usual...

I seriously doubt the selling/acquiring is over. I think it's a compulsion based on things I've read. I'm not doc, so it's just my opinion.

What a mess.

Thanks Rick you learn something new everyday.

Ashley has set her snake room tour video to private, one can only assume to hide the wealth of evidence it contained.

And that also shows and proves that she's GUILTY.

^^^Unfortunately due to her (lack) of actions and constant changing of her story, I fear all this thread really accomplished was to teach her to be careful of what she says and shows.

I feel the same. At one point, it's not enough to get her to change anything, but on the other hand, it's all right here as the title states: "Buyer Beware".

We may never know if she gets her act together. It's been like trying to break down a brick wall with one's fists.

Yep. :iagree:
She may just be more selective about sharing every detail.

In any case, the purpose of this thread wasn't to teach HER anything:
Several people over the years had TRIED to talk to her, she just won't listen.

She prefers just to act like this thread doesn't even exist and carry on as usual elsewhere. Oh well, what can you do? :shrug01:
As long as the information is OUT there, and available, hopefully it'll protect others.

I have thought of that, also.

Regardless though, this thread will still be here and she can't do anything to fix what she's done.

If nothing else at least she won't be posting on Fauna for awhile and that is at least a start. We all have to start somewhere to keep people like Ashley from masking the reptile world look like it is full of a bunch of crazies. Also she demanded the guy she got the BCL from give her a refund and actually threatened to sue him for her refund and her collection. Should she refund all the people who have bought snakes from her? I think so if that is how she feels others should handle problems with her.

I completely agree, especially if their collections do end up getting infected with IBD because of her. I think they have the right to come back and prosecute her because of her sloppy, careless business. I feel she does not have any right to deny them that.

I have been in contact with several people from other forums to help get the word out there is a possible problem. So far Redtailboa.com has published a warning. I'm hoping several other forums will follow suit, even if it goes against their TOS.

I feel if ANYONE is selling potentially IBD infected sick snakes, and there is THIS much proof existing to support the possibility of a spread, the reptile community should be notified.

I hate doing this, because if I'm wrong, I'll look like an idiot..(sadly, NOT the first time & probably not the last..)
But, I'll take the heat if the BEST should happen and everything is fine.

I'd rather risk looking like a "paranoid idiot" as I have been called, than have a bunch of people's collections be affected by IBD and other illnesses/parasites.

Chlamydia is contagious among several species of reptiles & amphibians, and it WAS found in the necropsy of the Burmese Python.
Not much is known about the zoonotic capacity of chlamydia strains, but it IS contagious. I can try to find out more from Dr. Jacobson after the holidays.

I feel there is no choice BUT to try to spread the word there are definitely issues of mites and Chlamydia in the collection, as well as a POSITIVE IBD test, and poor quarantine has been evident since that time.

It's NOT personal, however the more that has been revealed, the more disgusted, disappointed, and frankly, p!$$ed off, I become.

I would expect the same reaction from others if I were/had been selling/breeding snakes under similar conditions.

Sorry, should clarify, as Ashley brought it to my attention via PM:
The burm's chlamydia test on the brain showed negative, however the report states:
"A few magenta stained minute granules of uniform size ..are loosely aggregated in the cytoplasm....This is most likely some form of secretory granule and could also represent Chlamydia or a related organism"

Even if all her tests come back negative you aren't going to look like an idiot. This has brought up a lot of issues that all around deem her a poor breeder. Even if IBD hadn't been the issue and it had been just mites, or something a lot less scary, I would STILL never buy from her.

Chlamydia may be fairly common. Probably one of those bacteria that are kept in check until some issue arises that allows it to spread uncontrollably. One type of chlamydia is psittacosis and is very common in birds, people, and even reptiles. Often it does not present an issue but if allowed it can present range of issues, such as RI, regurge etc.

As for even if Ashley's collection proves clear of IBD, there is still the original animal with inclusions, suspicious death(s), perhaps it stayed there and did not spread further.

Also she has been exposed as someone who does not know the definition of quarantine and does not take the issue seriously. That alone is enough to stay far away since a great number of diseases could come in and be spread through her herp room.

Amercnwmn, why the hell is Sakara PMing you trying to correct you and having you post what she said, instead of posting here and attempting to correct things herself? She needs to quit third-partying.

I believe Ashley has been on RTB.com taking about how she will not post on the BOI because everyone is misreading her info. I am not sure I understand that because she hasn't posted much info on the BOI. Mosy of it has come from RTB forums, pics, and people that she has given mite ridden animals too. She is just trying to hide from the truth that she is a very sub par breeder, since she considers her self a breeder. I know I would never buy anything from her no matter how nice she seems to my face. This has to be one of the most obvious displays of neglagence I have seen in awhile. I realize there are probably much worse herpers out there but Ashley has put her sub par performance out there for everyone to see. I am glad that RTB.com has allowed a post of her recklessness to be posted so as to help stop the spread of her animals into peopls collection who actually care for their snakes.

I also would like to send my sympothies to all those effected by Ashley's truely crappy display of what the herp world is all about. We should be able to buy our snakes without fear of the breeder being a liar like Ashley but that is only in a perfect world. To some the all mighty dollar is more inportant than the well being of the animals which IMO is truely a horrible thing as these animals did not ask for Ashley to treat the like she does.

Not sure :shrug01:
Maybe hoping it'll just go away?
Maybe just has no more to say on the matter..
:shrug01:

I agree, she should be here facing the music, so to speak.

Ashley, you can't honestly claim you "didn't know.."

The information was there, and other people tried NUMEROUS times to advise you against selling/breeding given the circumstances of the IBD threat.

I agree, Hank.

I'm glad it has been allowed to be posted on other websites.

Personally I think threads that involve the health & well-being of animals, potential spread of disease/parasites/illness, as well as information proving people are scammers, should be shared with the community.
There has to exist a level of "proof" in the accusations, however.

It seems perfectly acceptable to allow people to share vital health care information based on hearsay, and WITH ZERO experience behind the advice on the forums, but NOT share warnings about PROVEN issues.

The links could be provided, let people read it here, and have the thread closed on the other forums, so any comments would have to be made on the BOI..At least the info would be there for people to see.

There are tons of people in the reptile community, many aren't even members of the online forums, by networking information such as this, it could save people whose livelihoods depend on breeding/selling snakes, and those whose collections mean more to them than all the money in the world.

Man this thread is a real eye opener , just getting in bp's myself it makes me even more insistent with proper quarantine and to be rather selective from who i buy . thx for all those here who posted info regarding this .,

I completely agree Courtney -solid info like this being shared across forums would help in preventing the spread of disease. IMO.

I'm going to point out another BIG no-no.

Ashley's "business" logo.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...bb/5105846.jpg
http://www.casperconstrictors.com/

She ripped it off of a guy from deviantart.com, with whom she did NOT obtain permission from to use it for herself. His signature was even erased in the image.

http://morrison3000.deviantart.com/gallery/9739124
http://morrison3000.deviantart.com/g...39124#/d1xtua3

The artist morrison3000 even said so himself in the comments below the image, that he did NOT give her permission to use it.

She has TWO choices:

1. Remove the image.
2. Give the artist credit for his work and link the image to his deviantart site.
.
.
Nothing ticks me off more than when someone rips off another's artwork for their own benefit without obtaining permission or giving the artist credit. I have had this happen to me before with my own artwork, and it was NOT fun confronting the thieves who did it.

Actually I discovered this, as I used to have this piece of art hanging on my wall. It took me a while to get in touch with the artist but he finally got back to me and informed me that this was being used without his consent. I have the full message he sent me.

Yes, I forgot to add that you brought it to my attention, and I posted it for you.

Yeah sorry that came out kind of jerkish sounding in that post....I'm having a major communication fail tonight. I mentioned it to Courtney and Adrya after having read through the thread and gone to her site.

I found the image on a google search and it was not linked to his deviant arts account when I found it... That's not where I found it... Which BTW, he did email me about it and I apologized for not knowing it was his, and he is allowing me to use the image and I am going to link to his DA account

Honestly, why not just design your own or have somebody do it for you?

Just saying.....easy way to avoid any drama.

It appears that yet another person has found mites in their snakes from Ashley as well.

If you got snakes from Ash, please check them thoroughly for mites!!

Yvonne should be doing so as well.

Well Ashley the whole just keeps getting deeper and you do nothing anout it. Your reputation has been tarnished by yourself. What a shame because because you had some nice animals but couln't figure out how to be a good breeder like you claimed to be. Sorry to say but I think you may have a hard time getting back into breeding and selling ever again because this will follow for years to come as it should because of your lack of truley caring. It is backyard breeders like you that cause outbreaks for no good reason. I could understasnd if you didn't know but you did and just plain ignored it. Mites on many snakes that you sold is just truely sickening.

AAAAAND as hboyles66 said, the hole right now just keeps on getting deeper and deeper. LOL it's amazing how she keeps making it worse.

Did something else happen I'm not aware of? I know she made a "check out" thread on rtb.net... OF COURSE not related to this drama.

Other than that any news?

Ok here ar a coupe questions I've had stewing for a while... where is the missing addendum at the end of the burm's necropsy report? And what are the "granules" reported in the brain? Could they be inclusion bodies? The pathology report stated something in the last addendum available for viewing to the effect that they needed to test further to identify what the granules were - then the next addendum or next page is gone. Well...I want to know if those granules were in fact inclusion bodies, or if they were tested, or what the next addendum on that report said.

Anything at this point could be indicators of IBD in the collection. The missing addendum could show something or it could just not be evident for irrelevance. The thing about the disease is that there is no standard for it to present in any specific pattern in any given animal. There are typical symptoms, but there are completely asymptomatic symptoms. It is very much similar to how HIV acts in humans and FIV acts in felines. Can be dorment forever and strike without warning.

The reason I say this is because, at this point, it does not matter if there is further proof IBD occurred in the collection. There is the one proof. That singular proof is enough to convince any responsible, intelligent, non-greed driven person to lock down their collection and/or euthanize animals as needed or as precaution. When you have a confirmed case of IBD, no animals should come in and none should come out. For how long? In my opinion? Permenantly. You switch from breeder to just hobbyist at that point, or you euthanize the collection, destroy the cages, bowls, hides, heating equipment ... everything and sterlize like you should be living in a bubble. Because no one knows exactly how this disease acts, it's impossible to say you have gotten rid of it or prevented it.

An animal can carry IBD for its entire life and never present symptoms. At that point, you need to assume all of your animals have it. And while I will stress the utmost importance of quarantine, but it is not a fail safe to save you from IBD. If the animal has it asymptomatically, six monts to six years may do nothing to show it to you.

However, in thhis case, it is obvious strict quarantine was not in place so Ashley really has no arguement that it happened to a single animal and the rest were unrelated. It happened while it was in the same room as those animals, therefore, all of the other animals are suspect to IBD, as is Yvonne's collection. But Ashely, as we have seen in typical patterns of people revealed of their true selves on the BOI, is having a hard time just owning up to the fact and admitting to doing responsible actions for her animals. Yes, she stopped selling some of the animals for now, but IBD can very well already be on its way to other collections to animals she has already sold. It could be dorment in those little Bolivians and the people who have them should be made aware to make the decision on if the animals should be allowed to thrive, never leaving quarantine, or euthanized to avoid the risk. I can tell you which one I would choose, but everyone here should know how I feel regarding culling for the betterment of the hobby already; it's an evil necessity.

A lot of this could have been avoiding had she been an adult about it from the get go ... but I guess I can go further by saying this should serve as a lesson to people looking to get into this hobby. Doing it quickly and irresponsibly will always have disasterous affects. Maybe RAS (SP?) is involved with her, I do not know, and I do not know the exact number of animals she has, but her lacking concern for their ultimate well-being will be the unfortunate demise of these animals and it is sad because IBD is a horrible death, even if euthanizia eventually ends the suffering.

I doubt she is going to post here much anymore. RTB.net is doing a good job of protecting her from people questioning her (a mod said if you have nothing nice to say go say it on the BOI on her "farewell" post) and a lot of the members there are still kissing her backside. So, she'll stick where the roses still cover up the smell of what she thinks does not stink. Sadly, hearing "Another one bites the dust" in the back of my head seems to have become the anthem of breeders who are shown to be no better than what backyard breeders or puppy mills are to dogs.

While she will be unable to operate in the "public eye" with breeding and selling the animals, I am sure she will continue to do it and continue to contribute to the disease that the very mention of causes the hair to rise on the back of the necks of most people in this hobby. I know it makes me cringe, and few things of such a nature bothers me, but that is because I know if I am ever unfortunate enough to become familar with this disease, then my animals will either be donated as research subjects for it or euthanized because of it.

This, unfortunately, is the truth. I don't know what could be done about it, honestly, but this is exactly what's happening. What's worse is that she appears on that site for long periods of time- which is more than enough time to post her thoughts her and at least TRY to save face. That's more than enough time for her to lend Elizabeth support for a problem she created. No, she's sending the creator of this thread (Amrcnwmn) PMs telling HER to correct information that she could easily do herself.

I really, really wish the mods at RTB.net would post a warning similar to the one at RTB.com- and LOCK the thread so there will be NO dispute, if they feel it would cause people to fight.

Apparently, she's "leaving". Her reasons are stated in that thread, but I have to think it's a little too coincidental that she is "leaving" after being exposed like this. Not only is she spreading parasites and disease, she's also a DEADBEAT!

excellently worded above. and i agree, if one has a confirmed case of ibd in their collection, it should no longer be a business or breeding hobby. no more snakes bred, no more snakes in or out. ive had cats diagnosed with fiv at 2 years old and go on to live to be 13 or 14 years old, but they are kept as the only pet and they are kept strictly indoors and no pets come to visit. these animals have the potential to live fairly normal lives with these diseases, if they remain dormant in them. if a person has two snakes (and they are not in it to breed) and one dies with ibd type symptoms, whether you get a necropsy done or not, that isnt a reason to put the other one down. just as most people dont put their cats down if one is diagnosed with fiv (assuming they are not breeding those cats). however, i know that if God forbid i had a snake that died and/or starting showing classic symptoms of ibd, because i dabble in breeding, i would euthanize all mine and have all mine tested (of course i am more blessed than the average person, in that i get a pretty significant discount in necropsy charges. lucky for me !!). the point is, as stated, one confirmed case is enough to take drastic and immediate action, either no more breeding and no more animals in or out, or euthanize disinfect the whole area, as well as cages and anything else associated with the snakes, and either wait a significant amount of time before obtaining any new animals or relocate where they will be staying

I encourage all members on RTB.net that have read this thread and do NOT like what she is doing, to NOT post on her threads. If the mods won't post a warning, the only other suggestion I have is to ignore her posts.

She is not leaving RTB.net, she is just "not going to be around as much" or something to that effect. It is a temporary thing until the heat dies down over here and is successfully extinguished over there, I assure you.

It has everything to do with this current situation. She can pretend it does not, but that is not really going to make anyone believe it. Some people mistake "Peter Pan" and its belief systems for truth rather than fiction. Maybe we should all start clapping our hands and see if that revives whatever remnaints of her shattered ethics remain decaying inside of her rotting morals.

While I can understand the desire to avoid "drama" on forums, I am absolutely appauled by RTB.net's disregard for the potential devastation that can come from all of this. It is as if it is a daycare center trying to keep the peace between a group of Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts arguing over if Thin Mints or choclate bars are better. It is an injustice to the reptile community as a whole and, to me, shows how spineless and callous people can be when the dog is not soiling their front yard. The mentality of "it is not happening to me, therefore, does not pertain to me" is massively destructive. That may seem a bit dramatic, but it is the facts.

For a group of people to turn their back on this situation when understanding it and trying to prevent it is so essential to our entire community is disgusting. The mods over there have created their own "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy regarding this irresponsible mess and it serves only a singular message: we protect our good ol' boys even if it is at the cost of others not fortunate enough to be in that club. It is just further proof that the fractures inside this community when it comes to situations like this hurts it more than the people that are on the outside looking in with disgust when they have no understanding of who we are and what we do.

this something that should be mentioned on all necessary forums and sites. the fact is, it is much easier (and better) to find out that ashley is "in the clear" so to speak, and apologize, than it is to just keep hush hush about the whole thing, while people that are out there that maybe dealing or in the future dealing with this problem of ibd. this isnt just about a person that is potentially sending out wrong morph animals or wrong sexed animals, this about animals potentially dying and showing symptoms of a disease that is horrifying to watch an animal have. if people havent seen what ibd symptoms can look like, it is really really bad, and can freak people out. ibd is serious and we, as a herp community, need to try and keep it at bay as well as we can, while research is still going on to try and find a true cause, route of acquisition, and treatment/cure.

:iagree: I just want to add my thoughts on the bolded part in your post.

They are not protecting anyone, imo. They are providing her with a means to keep spreading mites and IBD. They are, in essence, saying to their members...it's SAFE to continue buying from her.

Not exactly "protecting" HER as much as providing a vendue and possibly aiding and abetting in destroying a lot of other people's collections.:shrug01:

I GUARANTEE had this not been posted when it was, half of RTB.net would be infested with mites.