AV symptoms
 

I'm sorry to hear about your babies. I'm struggling with the same situation. The vet told me not to freeze the body but to refrigerate. I took my female the next morning and they used some solution to fix the body and send it to the lab at Texas A&M. Etouffee tested negative for AV. All of her eggs have gone bad.

Elvira layed at the same time and I had 1 egg out of almost 30 begin hatching Saturday evening. Today the head is exposed and some toes but the baby hasn't moved at all that I have seen up until now and I believe it is dead. I put it in a dish in the incubator on a wet paper towel to see if it moves at all during the night - most of it is still in the shell. I haven't tested the mother of this baby.

I did spend over $200 on Etouffee's necropsy so what your vet said is in line with what I paid. A&M did advanced slide studies of internal organs under electron microscope to rule out AV.

There is a posting under infectious diseases on beardeddragon.org where people list symptoms they have experienced with AV in their BDs. I'm putting the link but I don't know if it will go through to post or not.
http://www.beardeddragon.org/bjive/v...ic.php?t=46390

I hope some of that information helps you and I'm very sorry about your babies. Angie

I'm probably going to regret jumping into this thread but here goes nothing.

I was wondering does anyone know how the adeno virus started or what causes it. Other then it just being passed on verticaly, fecal-oral, or through an intermediate host. I guess i'm looking for what is the defect exactly.

I have been reading alot and noticed that some of the symptoms of this virus is lack of growth, weak immune system, on top of the rest. I had friend while back who had a clutch of eggs that were growing really slow. They got sick sometime after hatching maybe 6-8 weeks in. At the time we thought they had gotten sick from another dragon had purchased which had decent amount of parasites. But we were able to treat and save the larger part of the group out of 30 he lost 2. But after that incident they continued growing slowly. They never got sick again but after the last time i saw them. Some were growing and others were still rather small. I myself had dragons the same age as his and were more then double the size.

What to do
 

Confused here looking to get into dragons with my son. Are all of you saying that dragons are infected and will die.

Do you suggest buying overseas?

Can you request a test from the breeder?

Is this fatal always?

I have a black throat monitor can this be passed to him?

What risks to other reptiles?

Just looking for answers if there are any?

Chris W, Meadow Lakes Alaksa:shrug01:

If you see how old this thread is and that not all Dragons have died off I think you're safe!

Jim

WHAT CAN TOO DO
 

My son and I have been looking into beardies to brred here in Alaska. Justa little confused so can some one answer the following:

1. Are all Beardies infected in America?

2. Are breeders testing and can one ask for test results before purchase?

3. If you buy one what is it life expectency if positive?

4. Do you suggest purchasing from an overseas breeder?

5. Can a beardie be a vector to another reptiles i.e., Black Throat Monitors?

6. Seems like a self inflected wound right or wrong?

Thanks for any help , I 'm more confused now then before

Hello
 

Hello Chris,

Sorry to hear it is so confusing, but with thread I can see why. I will try to answer your questions more thoroughly for you.
Not all dragons who have Adeno die, some do while some don't. It greatly depends on immune system function when hatched & the genetics. There has been a lot of inbreeding which also decreases the hardiness of the reptiles, as well.
I do not know exact stats only that a lab that I work with who does PCR testing, has stated that approximately half of the tests are negative and the other half are positive, that he has personally dealt with.
Personally, working with a breeder in Canada who has tested her entire colony for me, has attained an all negative colony. She has one negative dragon who she has kept because he is so special. He has had his share of health issues but at least she knows why he has trouble now when previously before testing she just had no answers.
A breeder in Australia has a negative colony & I am working on getting a few more to test for me.
I have random tests everywhere really, even one in Dubai which is negative. It was imported from Czech Republic to the pet store where she purchased.

The problem lies with not enough people testing to find out where it is heavily concentrated. This has always been the problem. That is why I am not on this board anymore due to ridicule. That doesn't mean I haven't been working & researching, quite the contrary. I work with people that have ill dragons from a variety of things. What we have seen is a lot of dragons that are dying too young, with liver failure, etc. This virus directly affects the liver. Since we are not able to "see inside" them without surgery, we are not always able to head off any future health problems until it is too late.
If you would like more information on how to test for a very very affordable price, just let me know.

To answer the rest of your questions.

1) No, not all dragons have the Adeno virus. It has been proven that they do not all have the Adeno virus.
2) If any breeders in the US are testing, then they are doing it in secret or I have not heard about it. At one point a few did, but they no longer do. Some may be happy to test for you, but most do not see the value in it.
3) The life expectancy greatly varies. Some that are infected with it die almost immediately, while others may be able to live a full life. It depends on how badly affected the liver is, their genetics, the husbandry, etc, as to how long he or she may live.
4) Purchasing from overseas, you may get more negatives. However, keep in mind that most have imported from the US as well.
5) No, the Adeno virus is species specific. Thus, if one species of reptile or even a mammal contracted Adeno virus it would not affect the other species in the same manner as its original host. It is still not a good idea to mix species or house positive & or negatives together. The route is still known to be mainly fecal to oral route of transmission. It is not known to be airborne, but can be picked up in respiratory droplets.
6) No, a self inflicted wound does not increase chances of infection rates.

Please PM me here on the board, I just don't want to get too involved in the thread, if that is alright. I would appreciate it.

Thanks.
Tracie

Wow.
 

I have some questions and insights it seems everyone is overlooking in the chase for the truth...
1. If this virus didn't "magically appear" how did they contract it in the first place? It stands to reason that the infection started somewhere and somehow. Human HIV didn't just appear magically, it was created by accident in the race to find an inoculation for another disease. It is something that was environmentally introduced in captivity as it states Australia is not having problems there.... literally where they originated in the first place..... I could definitely see a chemical or additive processed in with the food they have marketed, introducing a new virus systematically, on accident of course... Come to think of it, one of the largest breeders in the 90s, Flukers Farms, was SAID to have dumped a bunch of sickly dragons to keep from eating a huge loss by way of dying stock... and if I'm not mistaken they were and still are a major player in reptile industry in the way of foods and products used by a lot of people. I have no proof of this but was told by several old school breeders the same thing.
I was also told that these sickly dragons husbandry was less than proper by far and way left of cleanliness... They bred crickets to sell and for their animals, it may have been introduced by that means as well... that would account for the virus taking hold of a dragon whose immune system was already low to begin with? I'm not a scientist, but 2+2 does in fact = 4...
2. The testing. Lord, really? Some of the tests are good for live dragons and others are better for deceased dragons... 2+2=4 Your vet can direct your INFORMED decisions on that topic...
3. Again, reasoning... There are millions of dollars being made on beardies alone, do you think humans are going to do the right thing over stacks of cash? Not historically speaking to say the least... Who do you think is going to admit, or for that matter, actually te.st for it and make that information public if it's bad news?
4. Stressors in enviorment... I agree with Tammie on the husbandry issue. 1 dragon, 1 cage. Cleaning and desensitization of the enclosures as an everyday routine. Know where their food is coming from, have regular fecals done to stay on top of parasites and worms... reasoning again suggests, dragons running in their own poop or another dragons is BAD! I mean maybe that's where the problem originated to begin with even... PRACTICE GOOD HUSBANDRY OR DON'T EVEN BOTHER WITH THIS HOBBY... eliminate stressors in their e nviorment this way...
5. I had clutches of dragons that were believed to have had it. Roughly half the clutch would stop growing, eating and even drinking, becoming very lethargic and in a matter of less than a week I had multiple deaths. So, reasoning again, would suggest that it is passed into offspring from one or both parents. So, if you don't want to spread it, have breeders tested to make sure they don't have it... (this was 20 years ago mind you, so dont think i am actively breeding infected dragons thank you)
5. Why can't someone apply for a grant that would pay them to do some of this long term testing to pinpoint what exactly we are dealing with? This much passion about something will only turn up results if applied effectively... ( not to include misinformation and swatting each other in the mouth ) ;)


There's a couple things I didn't touch on but this is probably enough to get me bashed and further my descent in the downward spiral of "beardie politics"... maybe this is a dead thread, I don't know... just my 2 cents from a reasonable standpoint that was drawn from personal experience... oh and for the record, most viruses first enter the body by consumption p or blood to blood infection or being infected by a host...

Make sure you're doing the right things to keep your Beardie's cage sanitary to minimize the risk of the virus spreading. Also, I would recommend keeping new Beardies separated in a different cage for some time to see if they present symptoms of the virus. If they seem fine after a few months, I think its safe enough to enter them in with your other populations.