California Laws and Breeding
 

In 2000 I collected a male California Kingsnake in Antioch, CA.
Only reason I collected him - he was about to enter a very busy street, leaving a field that was being bulldozed for new housing. Had I not been there, he's be out of the gene pool.

In 2004 I collected two hatchling California Kingsnakes in Redding, CA - I thought they were male and female from the tails, but I didn't probe them. This year while handling them, I noticed both of them had male looking tales - so I probed them, both males.

These are legally collected specimens.
I do not plan on taking any others from the wild.

Anyway, I have since purchased two captive bred females - one big 4' albino (she's gorgeous) and a juvenile 2' rather unusually banded and coloured female. I'm on the prowl for a third CB female.

First - it has come to my attention that California has a bag limit of 4 of L g californiae. Does that bag limit include purchased captive bred specimens? If so, I'm over the limit ... I do have receipts for the two CB females I purchased (PayPal transaction records).

Secondly, it also appears that I need permission from Fish and Game to let them tango, in the form of a native species breeders permit. Looks like it costs about $45.00 bucks.

Has anyone gone through this process recently?

When I breed them, I do plan on selling the offspring. I'm probably going to sell them cheap, this is a hobby for me. I do however want to hold back the young that have a high zipper effect (zipper is where white bands do not go all the way across the back) as I think it would be cool to breed a snake that has zipper from head to tail.

Could a california breeder experienced with Fish and Game shed some light on the rules? I've been looking through the PDF files on their website, it seems clarity was not something they budgeted for ...

Thanks,

FunkyRes

I let my permit lapse 2 years ago, because I decided to get out of breeding native herps. Some things I remember, or would think about;
1. There's a bill floating around the CA legislator (don't know how far it's gotten), that would ban the sale of native reptiles, period. As it looks to be written it appears that it may also make the use of racks a no-no. At least at the sizes currently being used. Also, if you buy snakes, or even feeder mice you will have to give them your personal info-name, address, phone number, which I think is garbage, but that's just my personal feeling. So you might want to look into the progress, or keep an eye on it before you decide. I think there's a thread around here that talks about it, try checking the legal or legislation forum or whatever it is called.

2. Sadly I don't know the actual real law about CB snakes in possession. Anotherwords, I don't know if legally you can still only have four in your possession even if they are captive bred. If you were just some Joe off the street and bought more than four, but never sold them or bred them, I don't think F&G is going to come to your house with warrants and guns drawn, but I don't know if it's technically legal. If you have a permit you can buy more, sell them, breed them, etc. You will have to keep meticulous records, even for out of state purchases. All my out of state purchases have given me a receipt, so don't know why you didn't get any.

3. The process is pretty simple, contact them they will send you a packet, that has all the regs, and you fill out all the forms, and send it back with the fee. One thing about becoming a breeder is you give them (F&G) permission to inspect the facility whenever they want, for some people who run their business or hobby out of the livingroom, or bedroom, that can be kind of a personal issue, otherwise not really a big deal.

Your albino is exempt, Ca exempts albino's, so I think you can even breed and sell them without a permit. They have to be homogeneous, not hets or something. Ca specifies albino as "lacking in melanin AND having pink eyes, so they are the only ones exempt, even though you can't find a 90% banana king in the wild they aren't exempt, nor are any of the other morphs. Even the one strain of "albino" Rosy, I do not believe is exempt, because it doesn't have pink eyes.

I heard about that - that's the bill that originally wanted to forbid the sale of pinky mice for food, though I think that has been dropped.

I'll definitely find out more about it. I'm actually not using racks at the moment, but I already bought a bunch of tubs for the purpose of building racks.

I'll find out about the current progress of the law and see if I can supply some form letters objecting to it to local pet stores for customers to take, sign, and send in to the legislators.

Only one of my purchases was out of state (I bought the juvenile female from a hobbyist in Alaska). The albino I bought from a breeder in California - I could get a receipt for her easily enough if I wanted to, but the PayPal transaction record I hope is good enough.

Yeah, I figured they would be allowed to do pop in inspections.
I don't have a big problem with that.

I do have to check on the bag limit for California Alligator Lizards.
Since that was my first reptile, even though I really only want snakes - I did go out and collected one that I thought was exceptionally beautiful. Turns out she was gravid, the eggs are now incubating. I do want to find homes for the young, but not until they are eating large crickets because they are more fragile when they are small. I have 10 eggs and I think the bag limit on those is 12 so I should be OK. I don't intent to do any further breeding of those, they can only be given away - not sold.



Your albino is exempt, Ca exempts albino's, so I think you can even breed and sell them without a permit. They have to be homogeneous, not hets or something. Ca specifies albino as "lacking in melanin AND having pink eyes, so they are the only ones exempt, even though you can't find a 90% banana king in the wild they aren't exempt, nor are any of the other morphs. Even the one strain of "albino" Rosy, I do not believe is exempt, because it doesn't have pink eyes.[/quote]

Well - they are sending me the necessary paperwork.

In the mean time, I found out the bag limit on California Alligator Lizards is 2 - I have one female who laid 10 eggs (collected gravid) - and according to the law, after they hatch I have 45 days to get back down to bag limit. I think that is kind of stupid, because baby alligator lizards are too fragile for me to give them to just anybody. It seems that if I declare them as a species I'm breeding under the permit, I can keep the young until they are old enough that they are less fragile, so perhaps it isn't an issue, I have to discuss it with fish and game.

Only Rosy boas, CA kings, and Gophers are covered/allowed by the commercial breeders permit. As far as I know the only other permits of that type are for scientific purposes and things along that vein. To the best of my knowledge you can't just declare a species that you are going to breed or go over the limit.

I'll have to discuss it with the department.
I can't believe the limit is so low for Elgaria species, when it is much higher for some less common species (IE Western Skinks). Alligator Lizards adapt pretty well to urban invasion, at least multicarinatus does.

I usually find a lot more skinks, than I do Alligators, but I do agree, in relation to each other (and other lizards) the numbers are skewed.

My permit arrived today - and this is what I was told over the phone.

No exceeding bag limits for wild caught.
Captive hatched are considered wild caught.
For non commercial species, I may go over bag limit but only with specimens bred under permit. However, I can not have more than 30 total native animals that are non commercial propogation.

None of the offspring may be sold or exported outside the state. They can be donated to science places and given to individuals, but if given to individuals, the individual can not exceed bag limit unless they have a propogation permit themselves, in which case they have the 30 total rule. And that's 30 total of all non commercial native species of herps, wether they are breeding them or not.

Captive hatched are considered wild caught.

That's captive hatched from gravid collected female, as opposed to captive bred.