Dishonest guy Jon Boone (User name Geitje)
 

I bought a pair of 1.1 sub adults Pachydactylus rugosus from Jon Boone early this year, First day when I received the pair from him, I saw the one supposed to be female looked like she has hemipenile Bulges, I have a lot of experience with other gecko species even this is the first time I got P rugosus, I can tell both are males !!

I contacted him and let him know right away, he said the female still young and I should able to tell the difference between the male and female in couple months. After two months they grown a bit bigger and the one supposed to be female now with huge Hemipenile Bulges as big as the male...then I took some closed up photos sent it to Jon Boone, he agreed with me that it is a male, he said he don't have any female right now but should have one in a month, so I wait for a month and half contacted him again, again he said he still don't have a female yet, but asked me any back up plan like get other animals from him, at that point I don't trust him anymore so I suggested refund the money and I ship him back the extra male, but from then on I have never hear from him, now been almost three months still not hear a word !!

Today I decide to write a post is because I know that I will never get the refund or replace a female, I don't want other people fall in his trap, we love our hobby, some people have to save for a long time to buy an animal they like, it is not fair for them to pay a thousand dollars for two males P rugosus !!
By the way if anyone want to buy this species, go to Phil Tremper Gecko Ranch, I also bought a pair from him they are great looking animals, and 100% sexable pair, Phil is a honest man, and his P rugosus cheaper too.

Thank you for reading, have a great holidays !!

Wai Lui

To help support your case would suggest you post your communications with Jon (emails, PM, etc.) as well as the pictures you took showing the supposed female to in fact be a male.

Have you notified him that you've posted this?

I have several of Jon's animals, and have spoken to him many times at Tinley. I have found him to be one of the most knowledgeable and honest guys in the business. I would understand it taking longer than expected to obtain certain species, and it looks as though he offered you some other options. Can you post the conversation that prompted his "disappearance"? And please let him know about the thread so he can respond. He is on his computer daily, so he will definitely see it. Thanks.

Noelle

Wai Lui, I wanted to ask you what makes you distrust this seller? It sounds like he is willing to work with you to rectify his mistake months from the original purchase. Mistakes DO happen particularly when sexing hatchling and juvenile geckos.

I want to iterate that I am not taking sides. I don't know either the buyer or the seller. Just trying to get some clarification.

Jon is one of the most knowledgable, honest and nicest people I know. He has been my friend for a couple decades. He is not a rip off artist, trust me. I think you blew this one poster. You are wrong about Jon. Work with him while you still have the chance.

Hope you're right but three months is a long time without a response if what the OP is saying is true.

If it's true, it's obviously unacceptable. But I'm betting there's more to this story. Jon is certainly not off the grid. Let's see some proof.

Noelle

Here is the communication history between Jon Boone and I.

Thank you guys tried to help with this issue, here is the emails Jon and I communicated with each other, some communication done by text messages but don't know how to copy from my cell to paste here !! Also the images didn't show up every time I tried copy and paste here, but I can send you guys the images directly by email if you are interested to see it.
I am apologize there is a time mistake, his last respond was 54 days ago on Oct 23, I should check the old mails before I posted yesterday instead of my memory, sorry about that !!



On Jul 10, 2013, at 7:05 PM, "Jon & Stacy Boone" <jsboone@cox.net> wrote:

> Hello Wai!
>
> Of course, I remember you! It's nice to hear from you and I hope all is
> well.
>
> The pair is still currently available, although a few other people are
> considering them. They are easy to keep and breed in dry terrariums as
> depicted in my attached photos. Terrariums 12" x 12" x 12" are sufficient,
> although the terrarium in the attached photo is 12" wide x 14" deep x 18"
> high. Temps of 78-90 F., relatively low humidity is fine. Dry sand.
> Females bury their eggs and build a mound over them. I feed them mostly
> crickets, although other breeders use other insects too. They are a simple
> and straightforward desert species with no special demands!
>
> I will send you pics of both animals tomorrow morning.
>
> Best,
> Jon




On Aug 3 right after I received the geckos.

Hi Jon, just check with you about the female, how much you sure she is a female since looks like she has bumps on each side of her tail, I hope it is not a undeveloped hemipenile bulges...

Wai




On Aug 3, 2013, at 1:13 PM, "Jon & Stacy Boone" <jsboone@cox.net> wrote:

Hi Wai,

Well, all of the animals have some swelling at this size! Males have a LOT more than the females. They typically show their bulges early, like some other geckos.

Are these your 1st P. rugosus??




> From: Time [mailto:Time2046@aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 1:33 PM
> To: Jon & Stacy Boone
> Subject: Re: P rugosus pair
>
> Hi Jon,
> How are you? I wish you and your family have a great holidays !!
> Jon, the reason I contacting you is about sex issue with the female I
> got from you, she doing well growing much bigger since I got her, also
> I seen that unsure hemipenile bulges are getting much bigger even with
> spurs on it just looks like the male, please take a look these photos
> I took this morning.




On Sep 5, 2013, at 6:12 AM, "Jon & Stacy Boone" <jsboone@cox.net> wrote:

> Hi Wai,
>
> WoW! I cannot believe that in such a short time that my "female"
> became such a male! I did not expect that. There is no doubt that the
> animal in that pic is a male. So, this is my mistake and I will fix
> it soon. At the moment, I only have very young animals, so will check
> with some friends and find you a female. Oddly enough, males are
> generally slightly harder to come by this year.
>
> What do you want to do with this 2nd male??? Keep it? Or?
>
> Also hoping that everything is well with you too!
>
> Best,
> Jon




From: Time [mailto:Time2046@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 12:59 PM
To: Jon & Stacy Boone
Subject: Re: P rugosus pair

Hi Jon,

How are you? Any luck to find a female from your friends, how about your
friend in LA, did he keep this species?
Also maybe if you have extra hold back female, I really hope I can breed
them next season instead of 2015..
Really appreciate your help !!

Thanks
Wai




On Sept 12

Hi Wai,

I should have one soon, but may take a month or so. It will be a definite
female, so will be ready to breed by next spring! NOT 2015!!

Best,
Jon




From: Time [mailto:Time2046@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 6:10 PM
To: Jon & Stacy Boone
Subject: P rugosus

Hi Jon,
Sent you an email about 10 days ago but didn't hear from you, not sure if
you get my message...
Please let me know how is the female P rugosus going, I would like to get it
sooner if possible before the weather getting too cold, many thanks.

Wai Lui




This is the last time I heard from him.

> On Oct 23, 2013, at 7:00 PM, "Jon & Stacy Boone" <jsboone@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Wai,
>
> Sorry for the late answer, as I was vending the Tinley show in Chicago (gone
> for 4 days) and then was in Kansas City the following weekend. I'm just now
> getting caught-up with all of my emails.
>
> P. rugosus - I do not have one just yet, but should not be much longer. In
> the event that this takes another month or so, I'd like to explore back-up
> plans (other things you might need, etc.).
>
> Thanks for sticking with me on this!
>
> Best,
> Jon




Oct 25

Hi Jon,

How are you? Thank you for reply.
It will be ok if you will have one available soon, my only concern is the
weather will get cold very soon, it may not be suitable for shipping by the time
when it is available. May I suggest to get refund for the female so I still can
buy one from somewhere before the winter coming...
If this is not acceptable to you, do you have any suggestions? Thanks.

Have a great weekend !!
Wai




On Oct 29

Hi Jon,
The winter will be here soon, I need to get the gecko sooner if possible, what
do you think about my suggestion to refund the money for the male, so I can get
a female from somewhere else..
Thanks,
Wai

Hello, Mr. Liu. Are you Wai Liu or Ken Liu? Same person? Different people same account? Just curious.

Also, do you have the photos of the hemipenal bulges on the so-called female that Jon sold you? It would only help establish the validity of your claim.

It would also be helpful to see the headers on the last 2 emails.
If I'm reading this correctly, Jon agrees that the animal in the photo is a male. What seems to be in question is whether the large, male gecko in the photo is the same animal as the small, probable-female, he sent you 4 weeks earlier. So, like Evan said, pictures would help if you have them.
Jon is able to ship worldwide throughout most of the year, so may we assume that the impending winter you are concerned about is in your town, Palms Springs, CA?

Noelle

Yes my Chinese name is Wai, and my English name is Ken.

Noelle, yes I do concerned shipping animals in winter since I lost two shipment before, one from someone, one frome to someone !!

As what I said I have hard time attach photo to here, I am sure is I don't do it right, if you don't mind I can send it by email to you and you post it for me here, thanks.

You are more than welcome to email them to me, rcarichter@aol.com.
If you only have the picture of the male, that's not really what we are asking for, since everyone appears to agree upon that one. If you have a picture of the gecko when it arrived to you, that would help. I'd be happy to post anything you are having trouble with.

Noelle

Yes I do have the photos, same photos I took for Jon, if someone here willing to help me, I can email to you and you can post for me here, I really appreciate it if you can help !!

Alright! Maybe we can look at some gecko junk!

Thank you for clearing up the name issue Ken.

Thanks Sanguine84, I just sent the photo to Noelle has him help me to post them here. There are two group of photos, one from the day I received it from the post office, the other group is about months and half later, let me know if you still have any questions, thank you guys for help.

Wai

Hi Noelle,

I just sent you two group of photos, one from the day I received it from the post office, the other group took at month and half later.
Please let me know if you receive them many thanks.

Wai

Here are the photos. The first is at arrival, the second two are current.


Attachment 562923

Attachment 562924

Attachment 562925

Noelle

Thank you very much Noelle, the second two photos actually were took in Oct, the Hemipenile Bulges now as big as the other male : )

Thanks for posting those Christine. Yup, clearly a male as Jon conceded via email. Hopefully Mr. Boone will respond with more information.

I truly believe based on his demeanor in the emails that he would have followed through with rectifying the problem regardless of bringing it to the BOI.

*Shrug*

Sorry I meant second two photos were took in Sept.

As I've seen others say on posts on fauna before about not getting what you paid for... It doesn't matter what he is offering to replace them with. Tankster didn't get what he paid for. He paid for a male and female and received 2 males. He wanted a female and was willing to wait but he could not be provided with one. He now wants his money back. Its pretty cut and dry, he should receive a refund. Not other animals that he does not want.

Hi Justin, I am glad you able to see my point why I posted this here, I paid over thousand for 1.1 sexable pair, but end up I got two males... also I gave him a chance to replace the female, but he unable to come up with a female in 3 months, all he said he shoud have one soon, finally I suggested to refund so I can use the refund buy a female from other person, this way I will have a chance to breed them in next season. Soon I suggested refund on Oct 25, from then on I've never hear from him again !!

Wai

Not sure this qualifies as a bad guy post? The OP was buying young animals which every experienced keeper knows is a best guess scenario. So the female winds up male and Jon offers to give a guaranteed female raising an animal to size to be 100% sure of the gender can take some time. Jon never said he wouldn't refund the money he did ask if there were any other animals wanted. Seems to me jon is taking care of this and the OP is getting impatient. Yes I also understand pushing back a season is discouraging but so goes the reptile business. I have had several transactions with Jon and all have been flawless. Give him a chance to respond I am sure the situation will be corrected!

I'm not saying Jon is a bad guy, but if he stopped communication after Oct when the OP said they wanted an refund and not other animals. Its a little concerning he wouldn't make it right with a refund. He only offered other animals which the OP doesn't want. He should get his money refunded....

I do not see anywhere in the posts where he refused a refund? He did ask the OP if there where any other animals he was interested in which is a very common response when working out a transaction. Also Justin my response wasn't meant to be taken as directed at you just my thoughts on the deal!

I did not take it as directed at me at all :).... I think its strange that its been almost 2 months with no response once he asked for a refund. And you're he didn't say that in the emails. But almost 2 months of silence says something... Like I said, I don't think he is a bad guy, as the others have said he isn't. To me its just strange to not say anything back to someone when you know there are issues with the product.

That's why I'm hoping to hear Jon's side today. I am sure he will remedy the situation.

I believe the OP has given him ample time to respond before posting this given that he hasn't heard from Jon since the end of October. From the communications posted Jon seems like a pleasant and reasonable person and I hope he makes this right but I don't think the OP is out of line for making this post.

What do you expect him to do? Send you another animal that might turn out male? A smart man doesn't get stung from the same hole twice. Seems to me he just wants to make sure he has a definite female this time because thats what YOU want. I missed the part where he said he wouldn't refund you, but I did catch the part where he asked you what you would like to do with the 2nd male? Keep him? Or...

Can you show me where in the email above Jon tells him it's a best guess? I sure can't find it. It looks like he said the pair is available not suspected pair not best guess but pair. If he wasn't sure it was a pair he shouldn't have sold it as such. And I'm sorry but how long is the OP supposed to wait? 6 months, a year? He paid his money for a pair of geckos and the seller screwed up. Crap happens everybody makes mistakes but he should fixed it by now. Not on his schedule but on the customer's schedule. If he can't produce a suitable female take the male back and refund the buyer. It's not rocket science. The OP has been more than fair in this situation. I also like the earlier post from Ken you should work with him while you still can. Nice so sellers should be able to keep the money from their screw ups if the buyer gets frustrated with the run around and resorts to a BOI to get a response. :NoNo:

Thank you!

I understand that people have had good experiences with Jon but in this instance it does seem a touch sketchy that as soon as the OP asks for a refund after waiting several months for the animal he was promised the seller stops responding. The OP is within his rights to make a post here given the lack of communication or resolution for not getting what he paid for.

First of all, just a short explanation of my tardiness for reply on this thread – my wife of 21 years and I have been going thru a lengthy divorce for the past 15 months (since August of 2012...) – and almost unbelievably – we’re getting back together and helping her move back in this coming weekend, planning, legal matters, financial matters, etc. So, I’ve been absorbed with spending a lot of time outside of my house lately. Next, I sold Wai a pair of P. rugosus at a discounted rate from what they were originally offered. Next, I sold young animals that I thought were a pair for $1050/shipped (not more than $1K/pair considering shipping). I routinely sold unsexed juveniles during that time for $400-500ea., although not necessarily important to this deal, but the price to Wai was more than fair at that time. Eventually, Wai informed me that the 2 animals he got from me were 2 males. Taking his word that the 2 animals were indeed the 2 animals I sent, I eventually agreed.

Next, I’m assuming that most people who buy juvenile pairs of a given species have done so for the primary reason of breeding them. These juvenile animals are at around 1 year away from breeding size when I shipped them, meaning that next July/August (during the beginning of the austral summer 2014) would be the target time for Wai’s 1st chance to breed them. In the offhand chance that he just wants a couple of P. rugosus to stare at, then I’m not sure if the importance of sex ratio matters – other than I sold them as a pair. So, my position has been to provide Wai with a pair of P. rugosus and find him a suitably sized (and 100%) female. Last week I arranged for a few juveniles to come back from the Hamm show this past weekend, and I have another friend in the US from whom I’m picking up a group of rugosus. From these animals, it was my intention to send Wai a female from this group of about 9 young animals. At the moment, my breeding pairs are just starting to produce (during the austral summer, which I accommodate) so I knew that would not give Wai a fair chance of having a breedable pair for the 2014 summer season – hence my efforts of rounding up an outside group of rugosus to help Wai from.

Shipping – I ship 52 weeks of the year, not only in the USA, but to Europe, Canada, Japan, Taiwan, etc. 48 hour heat packs, proper shipping practices, and experience allow for this. I’ve shipped reptiles for 32 years, on average 170 shipments/year. I also worked for UPS for 20 years. So, I do not see shipping as a problem – regardless of where you live.

Refund – upon receiving back the 2 animals, refunding is an option.

Otherwise, my intention was to send Wai a female as soon as I get one that is essentially the same size (or larger) than the animals that I sent to him, and allow him to keep the extra male – or simply sell it for the inconvenience (yes, there are people who also need males – in USA, Europe and the Orient). Again, the earliest he could breed these would be summer 2014, and it was my intention to provide him with a female that would accommodate that at some point over the wintertime. My reasoning for my thoughts on the offer above are simply based in what I would expect to receive myself – since I’ve been in Wai’s position countless times over the years – and that is sometimes needing to wait for mistakes to be corrected and thereby having a pair that is breeding sized when the expected season should begin.

Hi Jon, let's cut to the chase, since you said that refunding is an option, how soon you can refund the money if I give you my Paypal account information.

Thanks.
Wai

Thanks.
Wai

If the buyer purchased a supposed 1.1 pair of geckos, why should he have to send you back BOTH animals? He wants a pair....that seems counterproductive. Also, will you be paying for the shipping expenses to return the animals to you? I certainly hope so.

Good point, since female usually more expensive, even if I get the refund, most likely have to pay extra to buy a female from other breeder...

Wai

Also he already lost my trust, how do I know if he will refund if I ship him back the pair first ??

Wai

IMO, the only feasible solution is that Jon pay for return shipping of ONE of the males....and refunds half of the cost of the supposed pair of animals. Ken should not incur any additional costs or inconvenience because he did not receive what he paid for.

I agree with D. Beardonicus.