acceptable business "special"?, unethical?, or semantics aside still illegal?
 

I saw something in an ad that rubbed me the wrong way. I thought I would place it here, to get some opinions. Sometimes I think maybe my standards are to high, or maybe my ethics alarm is hard wired to high, and this is a perfectly acceptable "tactic".
here it is.
3 snakes are listed separately, the price comes to $450 (I personally would never pay near that for WC Easterns, especially toad eaters, but for the sake of this argument I'll assume this is a good price) if you purchase all three they are offered at $300, if you pay another $100 they will throw in some "free" Westerns. Now even though that is still less than the single listed prices (by $50) to me it just doesn't seem right. Maybe it's just this wording so they will be a gift for purchasing the Eastern Hognose at a higher price.
I know retail places have specials all the time...... but in this case the "free" object (cage) is not something technically illegal. I put "free" in quotations because many times the free item is actually built into the price of the item you have to buy. Someone might argue that is the case here.
So what are your opinions on this one?
Is this;
1.an acceptable legal advertising ploy?
2.Unethical, but legal? or,
3.A G&F person could press charges if they bought them.
AD?
My own personal opinion is, even though it could be argued that they are free because the single price totals $450, and this is $50 "off", the fact that you can get the trio for $300 means they are not free, and therefor, semantics aside this fits #3.

the seller has some nice animals and I've never heard anything bad about them, so didn't want to make this an official "bad ethics" BOI post, rather just wondering if my own train of thoughts are on base or off base.

Basic contract law begins with the concept of consideration. Consideration is that which is exchanged for another thing; it can be a promise ( money, for example), it can be performance.

Here, it seems clear that the total contract includes on the seller's side several snakes, and on the buyer's side a promise to pay money.

If 'free' items are part of the bargain and induce the trade, they are part of the consideration and thus part of the contract.

Contracts for illegal things are generally void.
If someone was to make a bargain and knew that part of the contractual items were illegal (mentioned in ad) and the seller did not ship those items, there would be no legal recourse, you cannot go to court for help in general, in a contract void for illegality.

All of the above is my two cents, others are welcome to their opinion also.

"all three for 300.00. If you would like to purchase this group for 400.00, I will add 2.0 captive-bred (FL) 2003 normal phase Western Hognose. We cannot sell these snakes in Colorado, so they will be a gift for purchasing the Eastern Hognose at a higher price "


Chances are if it is illegal to sell these snakes in Colorado it's illegal to export them from Colorado. Then again claiming they would be a gift if you paid the higher price is selling them. My opinion would fall under #3.

In my opinion they are being sold, period. It is thus illegal, no matter how he worded it.

Regards

It is generally agreed upon...
 

...that one should "let sleeping dogs lie", but as the author of the aforementioned ad (antiquicated as it is) I feel compelled to write on my own behalf.

The first issue to get squared away is the notion that H. nasicus are "illegal" in Colorado. This could not be further from the truth. Colorado Fish and Wildlife states that specimens any species (of reptile) which are native to Colorado may be collected locally, however, one may not keep more than four individuals of the species nor are they allowed to sell the animal or its offspring (there is also a time-constraint placed on the tenure of the capture). The possession of animals which may be found native to Colorado but were captive-bred in other states (in my case the animals were produced in Florida) remains unaddressed by written law and there are a few high volume "herp specialty pet stores" around this area which still sell CB H. nasicus (completely unchallenged and unimpeded by the law).

Secondly, I worded my ad in the said manner due to the fact that we in the local Colorado herp community have faced scrutiny as of late due to the actions of Brook Berntson a couple of years ago (many of you may remember him... he was the individual who produced the Leucistic Western Hognose from a locally obtained Leucistic female). Since then, many of us have been weary of openly selling these animals and undergoing possible legal ramifications and/or confiscation of our animals should we not be able to prove that the animals were not wild-caught. When I stated that we "cannot sell Western Hognose in Colorado" my wording was, perhaps, lacking as I have come to realize that this statement was misunderstood (or miscommunicated). By no means did I mean "these snakes are illegal for me to sell so I'm going to skirt the law and claim I gave them to you". I simply wanted to avoid any potential hassle or the inconvenience of having to "prove myself", plain and simple. I realize now that I should have frankly stated my intentions in the ad rather than vaguely rewording them as I would have saved myself some grief (I had also observed others in Colorado using the same "disclaimer" for the sale of their Westerns and believed it to be tried and true). I made a bad judgment call with this notion and in the future I will definitely proofread my ads much more thoroughly and apply the perspective of others prior to posting (I absolutely see how this may have looked unscrupulous).

John, I understand your concern and I do not find you at fault for questioning my motives. I do wish you had come to me about this issue before posting (it's a good thing I'm a desperate insomniac and had nothing better to do than read through old threads), but you made your choice and what's done is done. I have the utmost respect for those who dare to question... it helps me become better at what I do and to look at issues from perspectives other than my own. I can assure you that I am not trying to navigate around the law and would never purposefully partake in practices which could potentially hurt the industry or my own reputation. Lesson learned for certain- "choose your words wisely."

Have a wonderful weekend.

Jennifer Webb
Jungle Gems Exotics
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

Jennifer,

Thanks for addressing this issue. From our dealings and your well thought posts in the BOI I'm now certain this was just a confusion due to the wording employed.

Best regards.

This post originally reminded me of a "hillbilly swap meet" I go to twice a year.....seriously, you are surprised any of them are wearing shoes, hehehe....
Anyway, they also hold an informal auction at the end of the day, you hand the "auctioneer" a dollar, and he will sell ANYTHING. Literally ANYTHING....except ex wives. It is illegal to buy or sell a handgun in Iowa without all of the proper permits, yada yada.....so the auctioneer sells everyone "this nifty gun holster....I don't know what's inside, I didn't look and it's none of my damn business". LOL. I've seen some $200 holsters sell there. :hehe:

Anyway.....until your explanation, I thought it was pretty much the same deal....I'm glad you explained it....one case where maybe it was a good idea to "wake up the sleeping pooch". ;)