*BEWARE* Jim Stelpflug-Questionable Ethics
 

An interesting conversation occurred just a moment ago on Facebook between myself and Jim (James?) Stelpflug. I believe he runs some shows in Wisconsin and maybe has another business name, I'm not entirely sure. We were casual friends on FB only recently and I'm not super familiar with the guy, but based on my interaction tonight I would question dealing with him thoroughly based purely on his admission of a lack of character screening when it comes to who he does business with.

Jim made a post about some new snakes he received and tagged Manny Frade (Perfect Predators, known criminal and less-than-ethical-to-say-the-least character) in the post. I made an inquiry on his post of whether or not its the same Manny Frade who was arrested for stealing money from senior citizens, and my post was deleted. Shortly after I made a couple follow up posts on Jim's post, including a link to a news article detailing Frade's criminal run-in last year, Jim deleted those other 2 posts and then un-friended me.

I thought it was odd, so I sent him a message on FB messenger and he went on to admit that he doesn't care what Grade has done, and deals regularly with other criminals in the hobby despite being fully aware of their sordid past/ethics. I feel strongly that someone who deals with people of a seedy nature knowingly only seeking our personal gain is a person lacking in moral fibre themselves. I have a feeling I'm not alone in this, so I wanted to make this information available to others where Jim cannot sweep it under the proverbial rug.

Unfortunately I was not able to get screen shots of my posts on Jim's post because he deleted them rather quickly, and I did not check FB again after making my initial post for 30+ minutes. I only have a notification showing that I had indeed replied to Jim's post, so hopefully that part makes sense.

OF ALL PEOPLE in the industry, Jim is the most HONEST, Friendliest, most go out of the way for you be it customer or not person in the entire business. This post is not even in the guidelines of posting. This is not merit for a bad guy post.
Jim is one of the BEST guys in the business, and who cares who he does or has done business with. WE HAVE ALL DONE BUSINESS with someone who is not liked in this business, especially if they actually run a TRUE business (aka running shows, breeding operation with thousands of animals, thousands of rodents, etc) .

This is probably top post ever on Fauna for most ASSuming post ever. No evidence, no bad deal, no malice, no anything. Just someone who doesn't like someone so put someone else on a bad guy post because of personal opinion.

You TROLLED him on his own facebook page. You went out of your way to steal the post to something none of your business. He posted boashe got, tagged boa people for their opinions on his page, and you started posting unsolicitated aka TROLLING.

How did you not ASSume he wanted Manny to see he spent money elsewhere? or that he might have wanted to show Manny he got something he paid for, maybe Manny ripped him off, so Jim posted he got the animals anyways? You have no CLUE why he tagged Manny. You have actually NO RIGHT, and he has no MANDATORY OBLIGATION TO EXPLAIN SQUAT to you.

You see just by this post, and taking your time to go out of your way to post(troll) Jim, you have no Idea who JIM is. He is the guy that will not talk crap of anyone, even if you bring someone up to talk crap about. He is mindful, respectful, and believes its not his place to throw people under the bus no matter what.

JIM is one of a kind, incredibly nice and honest dude, and this business would not have the problems it has if people were more like him.

You made a BOI because someone didn't pass judgment on a guy to internet posts and rather make his own judgements? That is his business not yours.

Yeah no.

I'm no fan of Manny Frade, based on his legal troubles, and I admit that I kinda frown when I see people support the people in this hobby who are known for causing issues - but -

Jim Stelpflug has a stellar, golden reputation. The man is nothing if not professional to everyone he deals with; he goes above and beyond for his customers and for his friends. If he wants to deal with Manny, knowing the risks he's taking, that is his business in the end.

As far as I'm concerned, it changes nothing. I get that this is an info thread, but I think it's not really fair. Jim's not out defending Manny's actions, he's not out condoning them, and as he put it - that's Manny's business and has nothing to do with him.

Well, for all the apparently positive aspects of the subject, this thread also points out a negative for people to consider. If you're purchasing from the known dregs of the hobby, you are playing a tangible part in keeping them around to screw others. I can easily understand how some could choose to see that financial support as defending/condoning their shadiness - it's certainly not taking any kind of stand against it.

I doubt I'd really be able to bring myself to post a thread just to point out who someone chooses to associate with, but I don't really have any problem with David's choice to do so. If someone feels good about willingly sending their dollars to someone who's known to steal them from others, I also find myself in the camp that believes that's saying very unflattering things about such a person.

If name recognition compels you to defend someone who's choosing to financially support scammers, maybe that's saying something about you that you may want to seriously think about. Doesn't it seem counterproductive - bordering on hypocritical - to actively participate on a forum dedicated, in part, to outing the scammers, just to turn a blind eye on those who - actively, knowingly - help perpetuate their existence? :shrug01:

A lot of assumptions were made about the start of this post, though. Frankly, just because someone receives animals from another name in the hobby does not mean they bought or traded with them recently. For all we know, Jim might've gotten animals from Manny from a deal years and years old, that he was making right with him. Because we don't know those details, I think it's presumptuous to judge him for it - my two cents. Equally: I don't feel an explanation is owed to an outside party not involved in the transaction.

Just how I feel about it.

His need to point out other possibly questionable people he does business with - present tense - suggests that the timing isn't relevant. Based on his own writings, their past apparently makes no difference to him.

I have been in this industry 35 years. The gentleman I named that I did past business with had issues with the law after my dealings. Fangthane if I were to purchase a animal from someone today. And the shoot and killed someone tomorrow. In your world I am a "bad guy"

My god this post is so ridiculous. Mr Beard got booted from a Facebook group we are in. Now he brings it here. All over his hatred of scaleless animals I am guessing? And we produce some

So back to the issue of the boas, and Manny Frade. I paid ZERO dollars for these animals to start with. It was a past trade, and these animals were sent to me yesterday. In some ways I am glad, and a few said I would never see anything. I was raised in a Christian home. I received them yesterday in perfect condition. Mr Frades past his just that. His past. He is the one that has to face the world daily for his actions. Not I, but now Mr Beard feels he needs to judge me without the facts????

Like I said, ASSumptions made to just TROLL.
Probably one of the most ridiculous, out of spite, non informational posts on this board in AGES.
Literally all it did was make someone post their private business they had with someone who owed them.
Glad you got them Jim!

No, but that's not the context of this particular situation. I haven't gone as far as labeling you a "bad guy;" but if you bought from someone who you already knew was a murderer, I would have much trouble seeing you as a very "good guy." Engaging in business with those who are known to be of poor character does nothing but encourage their continued presence in this hobby.

If you're fine with associations that include someone who's scammed retirees out of their savings, as well as screwing multiple people in the reptile business, don't be surprised when some some percentage of us have an issue with that decision. So long as their negative actions continue, you can't say anything is in their past - there are still recent, unresolved threads about Frade's shadiness. You're free to associate with whomever you choose; everyone privy to your choices are free to take that knowledge into consideration when deciding whether they want to include you among their associations.

Nobody got booted from any FB groups, Jim. I left on my own accord, ask the admins. I have no personal grudges here, like I said: I barely know you, and honestly had never heard of you before I joined that FB group (Noobs in the Industry To Avoid, a secret group where the members mostly just screen shot new keepers and make fun of them amongst themselves).

Jim doesn't have a completely perfect record, from my research. Looks like he owes $400 to this customer from 2014 when he didn't know the difference between a Yellowbelly Ball and a Spectre:

The post can be viewed here:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=128974

So apparently, his decisions to support known criminals in the hobby and give them his business IS indicative of his own ability to make ethical decisions. That was my point. I have no vendetta towards a person I barely know. I just want people to KNOW who they're dealing with, and the company you keep says a lot about a person.

Couldn't have said it any better, Dan. You pretty much nailed it. :exactly::exactly::exactly:

(OT) Real nice
 

[quote=DavidBeard;1994493]Nobody got booted from any FB groups, Jim. I left on my own accord, ask the admins. I have no personal grudges here, like I said: I barely know you, and honestly had never heard of you before I joined that FB group (Noobs in the Industry To Avoid, a secret group where the members mostly just screen shot new keepers and make fun of them amongst themselves).

Real nice. I'd be very curious to see who is in this secret FB group, so I know who to avoid now (and I'm not referring to the Noobs).

I guess if we need to talk about #11 of ten years ago roughly. I had a Spector male that belonged to Brock Wagner here. A long with a few others animals that we were working together in joint ventures. So yes I did turn the matter over to Brock. He did handle the matter as I remember it in a professional manner as well. Though like I said it was sometime in the past.

I plainly see the the David and Dan witch hunt will continue no matter for what reasons.
Simply you two feel you need to warn people, because I received some boas in payment for a past debt?

I believe I am in 40 Facebook groups. Which I don't remember asking to join one ball python group ever. I get added lol

[quote=MomofDnNnD;1994500]To be perfectly honest I did not recognize 99% of the people in the secret group, but it is run by Tom Pecanic, and its most comprised of self-righteous trolls who do nothing but flap their gums about other people behind their backs. Its very high-school-esque and I was not part of the group for long.

Length of time does not absolve you of wrong doing, Jim. You dropped the ball. You passed the buck on an animal that YOU sold. Something that a person of such high esteemed reputation would not do, if they were truly of such quality character.

You're missing my point entirely, which is not surprising given your stance on doing business with known criminals and scam artists. Your hyperbolic verbiage ("witch hunt") is a poor attempt at playing some kind of victim, when in reality you're probably not too thrilled that people can see your unscrupulous nature out in the open. You have no problems dealing with folks who rip others off......and coincidentally you have shown in the past the ability to conduct business in a less-than-honest manner, as evident from the Spectre situation.

If you sell an animal as having a certain genetic background, a certain sex, a certain detail that makes it more valuable to prospective buyers, then it is indeed YOUR responsibility to follow through on those details and make amends if a mistake is made. You did no do so, and left the guy to deal with the breeder. I thought you were adamantly opposed to "flippers", based on your posts in the Noobs In The Industry To Avoid group?

David I did not own the animal. I did not sell the animal you are talking about. It was in possession, and I shipped the animal. If the animal was was sick, it in poor appearance. Which it was not. Then it was on me. I turned the matter over to Brock. In which I was involved through the process myself. The matter was handled by the snakes owner. I realize you just am getting started with a couple of corns, and a albino ball. I wish you the best, but because I collected a debt in snakes I am at fault?
I guess I didn't realize the the snake group was some secret group deal. Seems as many people talk a lot of this group, and a few others. I don't think it is to secret

:iagree:

There is no time limit on amends. Perhaps the issue could be revisited and the issue put right?

Now it seems that you're being purposely vague and obtuse in order to try and maintain some kind of distance from responsibility. The person did not trade with the owner, they traded with YOU. It was in your possession, YOU mitigated the trade and YOU sent one of your animals in return for the other.....why were you offering your own animals up in exchange for an animal you didn't own (allegedly)? Do you have any kind of evidence to back up your claims? I'm going to wager that the answer is no and you will only continue to make dismissive posts regarding the subject......another example of your lack of character.

By "secret" group, I meant that the group can not be found or viewed by people who are not already in the group. There are ways of editing who can view groups on FB, and that group is definitely "off the radar" as much as possible.

Not sure what you meant by me "just getting started", a quick search on my history on this site alone lets you know this isn't my first rodeo. I've been keeping reptiles seriously for close to 20 years. I vended my first reptile show as a teenager in the late 90's. I have a small collection these days because of time/work constraints. That was a nice *attempt* at an underhanded comment, though....you do get an "a" for effort. ;)

Does no one read anymore? Jim got the snakes from Manny because Manny owed them to him for a while. Manny finally came through with his end of the deal. Jim is just happy that he finally got them. There are no time frames, this could be a deal from 12 years ago for all you know. Stop ASSuming.

As for "secret" groups that is usually for spammers NOT to infiltrate and put up a million ads for ray ban sunglasses. Many many groups are secret. They are also secret due to the fact that there are only a few admins to look after it, so they cap it off at a certain number of members. Many groups are for people on a different level in the hobby. I sure wouldnt want a bunch of newbies blowing up a group of professionals. There are OTHER groups for that. This isnt public domain. They are private groups for people who want to be in the group. There is no RIGHT TO BE IN a group.
You are taking "secret" way to far lmao.
Now besides "Secret" groups that have nothing to do with Jims character, I am sure there are hundreds if not more that attest to his character as a great person, honest, and completely bend over for you backwards if he wasnt even doing business with you. I have seen it in person. They may or may not post, as they probably think as me that this thread on such a cool dude is "insert here politically incorrect wording" - but they are there by the droves.
ASSuming someone loves dealing with a known bad character is not very intelligent. Now asking him like a man, not some internet troll via PM, hey are you and Manny buddies? do you sell alot of his snakes? Do you support Manny? Do you flip Mannys animals? You know asking , instead of ASSuming, is kind of the normal correct thing to do.
I know for a fact based on Jims character that he would avoid Manny like the plague....unless Manny owed him money for a deal from awhile ago.

For anyone that can see through the salem witch hunt, Jim is probably the MOST honest guy in the industry. Many many can attest to that.

Hopefully, Jim, whatever animals you got from Frade are properly represented in case you sell them. I'd hate to buy something misrepresented only to find out I would have to seek resolution from Manny.

I fully agree. I have all visual animals from him. All seem to be in great health, and all were sexed properly as well. Maybe it is a sign of good things in the future as well

I'm involved in a "witch hunt" against someone I never knew existed; in support of someone with whom I have absolutely no relationship. Riiiiggghht. An entirely well-considered conclusion, with no emotional knee-jerks involved, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

The more you talk, the more interested I am in knowing the answers to the questions David asked you about this deal that went wrong. Hard to trust uncorroborated statements from someone who's shown a willingness to put forth the most self-serving interpretation of events.

Notice how Jim conveniently avoided and completely ignored my questions about his assertions?

Jim, in case you missed it the first time: why would you offer your own animal in trade for an animal in your possession that allegedly belonged to someone else? Can Brock Wagner corroborate your claims? Surely he can since you named him in one of your previous posts. Oddly enough, the person who bought the supposed Spectre from you mentioned none of this.....could it be that you did not make this situation aware to them? I would think someone with 35 years of experience could tell the difference between a $50 Yellowbelly and a Spectre, is that not correct?

For someone asking if people read anymore, you sure did miss some integral parts to this conversation.

I *DID* ask about the animals on Jim's post, and he simply deleted the inquiries and de-friended me. That seemed a rather odd reaction to my posts, and low and behold.....I smelled fish and found some Tuna.

I'm well aware of how the term "secret" applies to Facebook groups, so unless you're explaining this for Jim's sake then you're preaching to the choir. The group I mentioned is literally listed a secret group on its description, and I was merely explaining this because anyone not in the group will not be able to pull it up in a search function on FB, and I did not want anyone confused or thinking it did not exist.

David, you are making too much of Jim receiving some boas from Frade. The boas were payment from a PAST debt.

I bought a wonderful BP from Jim & she is beautiful and healthy. That is what matters to me.

Would I buy from Frade? No. Many people still do & most transactions go well, unless (it seems) they are high dollar transactions. If you avoided doing business with people who buy/sell/trade with the undesirable, you would be very limited in options.
Sometimes, business is just business ... to call someone out because of a past debt that was owed to him is wrong.

I cant speak of the other deal, I've not read the thread.

I’m trying to decide what to think of this thread…Manny Frade is by all accounts a scammer and person to be avoided. So I would wonder about anyone who does business deals with him and defends him by blocking posts regarding his past deeds.
On the other hand though, how far do we take guilt by association? If Jim got some animals that he was due from a past deal, I don’t see how that makes him a close associate or supporter of Manny. There is another thread where Manny owes someone on a breeding loan. If he now makes good on that and delivers on what he owes to that person, does that person then become questionable because they finally collected on that debt? I think not.
I think the real issue here is this: by tagging Manny and then defending him by removing David’s posts, it looks like Jim was supporting Manny. That may not have been his goal – maybe he just didn’t want the FB group descending into a dramatic argument about Manny. Maybe he was annoyed by David calling him out on it, and instead of saying “yeah, David, I know he’s a bad guy but he owed me some snakes and I didn’t want a whole FB war so I deleted your posts ” he basically said that Manny’s issues are his own and who he associates with is his own business. Maybe he is owed further animals and is trying to keep Manny cooperative and holding up his end of the deal? Or he may have just been somewhat offended – you did come on pretty strong there, David. Maybe by arguing back with you, he was more defending himself than Manny? None of us are at our best when we feel attacked.
I guess I’m on the fence. It’s good information to know in order to avoid associating with associates of scammers, but I don’t see enough evidence to say Jim is a buddy of Manny’s.

How does any of this warrant a BOI thread? It doesn't meet the criteria...

If it was just ONE criminal he was knowingly doing business with and promoting their sordid behavior, it would be one thing. Jim flippantly replied that he does business with several known criminals and thinks its fine....I'm really having a hard time believing that people don't see the point I'm trying to make here. If you keep feeding the bottom dwellers of the hobby, you are opening others up to a potential scam/rip-off/bad transaction.

Theres an old quote about "the only thing evil needs to thrive is for good men to do nothing" or something to that effect.....I think that absolutely applies here, and people who do business with Jim should know that he has no problem associating with and buying from criminals, and therefore could possibly be open to stiffing customers in the future, just like he did the person who traded for the Spectre.

His stories don't line up with the testimony of his displeased customer, and he is avoiding admonishing himself by ignoring the questions put forth to him.

Just because someone has 100 good deals, does not diminish the one bad deal that occurs. Its not about what you do when everything is going well....its how you handle things when they go bad.

I also find it ironic that Michael Barrera is here acting as a character witness for Jim, when he himself was convicted of smuggling in 2005 I think. Yet another criminal in Jim's stable of friends. shocking

To clarify: the posts were not made in a group. The post that Frade was tagged in was on Jim's personal page. The removed comments were also on Jim's personal page, not a group, and not a public post. David also failed to mention that not -all- of his comments were removed [but he may not have realized this, because of being unfriended, since the post -is- friends locked].

I've attached proof.

I failed to mention it because I could no longer see the thread once Jim defriended me, so you would be correct.

Yes, I did unfriend him after he posted that on my page. If David Beard wanted to make me aware of the Manny issues. I feel it should have been done in a person message. I don't need his battles with others to become my battles with others.

So to charity once again. Manny Frade whom owed my on a past deal offered to trade me boas for a past deal. I accepted the boas as payment. I posted pics of some of the animals along with two new male ball pythons that I also received the same day from different a different party.

David do to a past difference with myself. Then thought he needed to make everyone aware that I got these animals from Manny here. So he started this thread on me.

Know I admitted that I have Have sold and purchased animals from Ben Siegel. This was before Ben had his issue with the law. So in closing if you have purchased anything from Ben Siegel auction page? Beware you my have a ridiculous thread posted here about you by David Beard

I am not negating the value of this type of information. What I am asserting is that the BOI is not the correct venue for it. The BOI is for specific instances of documented "misdeeds" brought forth by one of the involved parties. It should not be used for generalized concerns, hearsay, or assumed guilty by association musings. It would be a totally different situation if Unaware Guy A teamed up with Bad Guy A who scammed Hobbyist A, And then Hobbyist A brought it to the BOI. It is not okay (on the BOI) for Hobbyist B to insert himself into the equation and bring up generalized, nonspecific concerns of what could possibly occur in the future. This FB romper room behavior should NOT be allowed on the BOI. It can too quickly degrade an extremely well-run, well-documented, factually-based RESOURCE that is highly necessary and valuable in this hobby. Moderator thoughts?

David, are you just addicted to the endorphins that are stimulated in your brain when you cause drama? I've read a lot of your posts man and you often make a completely non-issue into a damaging post about someone. Why do you do that? Jim didn't do anything wrong, don't you think we should stick together in this hobby instead of tearing everyone down and apart? Shame.

My brain hurts from the lack of actual facts. You know no facts and seem just emotionally hurt ( like in preschool, kids cry when they dont get there way) that Jim deleted comments ofF his PERSONAL page. Lol.
Facts:
You do not know the details pertaining to why Jim had to get boas from Manny. (PAST DEBT)
You do not know Jim in any transaction involving yourself but are posting third party. (AGAINST RULES)
Jim does not need to tell you. (NOPE HE DOESNT)
He has the right to not do so. You on other hand have no RIGHT to know. (BUT WISH YOU DID)
Manny still owes many debts on animals to many people. (PROBABLY ALOT)
If he owed me money and I can take it in animals I would.

Opinion that may be fact after people read your posts:
You are targeting Jim because you went out of your way to post on his personal page to try to catch someone in something that doesnt exist for the sole purpose of feeling detective like and getting recognition and feeling special. If Jim sold you a boa he got from Manny, and you told him specifically you didnt want to buy a boa that came from Manny then yes, this would be a warranted post on Jim. But its not. Jim just simply collected an old debt.

Jim is best guy in business. He goes above and beyond for people. All you have to do is be by his table at any show he is at, and just listen to him talk to random strangers. He refers people to other vendors that may have something he does not.
He offers to drive your stuff to the airport, he gives kids huge discounts, he offers you food. He is all around a great guy. Like he almost TOO nice lol.

Please keep this on topic, its about Jim/Manny debt. Not about brock/jim/spectre, and not about me. Its about Jims character, and there are lots of people coming out of wood work eventually once someone posts this thread to his friends that will post. 1 deal out of 100s is not gonna make or break him. HE WILL keep doing what he does best, and that is treating people with respect, friendliness, and integrity like always.

Also where are the moderators? This dude has posted about an old deal that has its own thread......he ran out of ammunition and using it here....all meanwhile he has no transaction on either. This is not what BOI is for. Boi is a review site....for transactions gone good or gone bad. Not for character opinions, and not for ASSumptions.

I do not believe providing BOI information about a specific person that one is not involved in a transaction with is against any rule. The moderators themselves post BOI threads about various scammers on the site they have uncovered, for the benefit of the community here.
Once a thread about a specific person has been initiated, accounts of other transactions, and readers opinions, are on topic, as they allow for more informed decisions. After all, you yourself are adding your own opinion, and that helps inform readers as well:

Years ago, a friend of mine introduced two of his friends to each other- a rodent breeder, and a rodent buyer. The rodent buyer got some rodents from the rodent breeder, but for some reason, failed to pay for them. At a subsequent show, an uninvolved friend of the rodent breeder demanded that my friend pay for the rodents himself, since he was the one that introduced the two. When my friend declined to do so, the uninvolved friend of the rodent breeder suggested that a fistfight between all those involved (or uninvolved) would be in order. Fortunately, he did not follow through.

I know it's a bit off topic, but this thread made me think of that event.