Round and round in circles we go... repeat the lies often enough and they become true.

Mmmmm,

I read (Gary O I think)

"And I and a few others did enough research to tell they are not 100% safe and he hates that. "

yes, I do. Reading factually incorrect posts on the web does not in my view consitute research.

Mmmm, let me guess, a video of Taipans and the like biting me with no result isn't evidence??

Let me guess, I am just lucky you say....

Now I shall fall into your trap of repeating things ...

venomoids by definition have no venom. If they do, they are something else...

To claim a venomoid is mutilated is also false. People can't tell the difference when looking at them!

Hardly mutilation. When we started with venomoids our critics used the term, surgical enhancement, but it didn't get the emotions high enough, so the term surgical mutilation and butchery were used instead. Same sort of language used by HSUS to get S273 over the line. I see the same Zealotry here.

Also to claim I want everyone to like venomoids is false. Last night I caught a suite of Tiger Snakes, Browns and the like, all deadly and all venomous and all were released still venomous.

Venomoids at best as stated in all my papers, have a limited use and potential "market". They will never be everywhere and nor should they be.

From a commercial point of view, I'd perhaps rather be the only person on earth with venomoids.

ALL THE BEST:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadh orse:deadhorse

Save the "venom" in your replies and go here:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=157644

and use it. I think it may be more useful.

Happy herping....

It's S373. Not S273. Sorry, that's been bugging me for a while.

Shows how slow you are. I know I have and I know many others in this thread have been doing a lot with that. How about sending out over 250 letters from the last show I vended?

See regular people can do more then one thing at a time........

And the snake did not bite you. YOU abused it and forced it to.

Excuse me Gary E Orner Jr, it was you and your mates who begged me to post a video online of me copping a bite from a venomoid to PROVE that they hadn't regenerated venom as you and your mates kept claiming.

As a "one off", O(done several times to remove the inevitable claims of "faking") you now twist things to claim we are "abusing" our snakes.

Well, your gros hypocracy is shown when you ignore the fact that venom labs "abuse" snakes daily to milk them.

The use of venomoids removes the need for this ongoing "abuse" because we don't require anti-venom when bit and hence no need to abuse snakes to get the venom in the first place.

Put simply anyone who attacks venomoids used in our context (educational shows daily) endorses ongoing cruelty to snakes through hooks, tongs, tailing and the need to "milk" snakes and force them to bite foreign objects, so that they can get "antivenom" when bitten.

The numbers go against you Gary E Orner Jr.

But as I have mentioned before here and elsewhere, people like yourself seem oblivious to the obvious truth and this lack of credibility on your part will be used by HSUS and the like to ram the python ban bill thru.

Bye for now

Explain to me, Ray, how saying "venomoids are not totally safe and the surgery is not an exact science" is the same as helping push through S373? And of what concern is it to you what Americans are or are not doing regarding that bill? Doesn't Australia have a ban on damn near every non-native reptile anyways? Stop trying to use a bill that you aren't even remotely involved with to promote your own reckless ideal.

ok Ray im only going to say this once cause now you are making yourself look like an idiot in another way. you say milking venomous is cruel and there is no need for it but maybe you need a reality check bud, venom is being studied for cures from cancer to cronic pain so before you go running off your mouth about something you have no idea about and to dumb to read about maybe you need to keep your trap shut and take a long trip in the outback and get lost. if you dont have enough sense to know the venom is used in studies for medical cures you dont have enough sense to do educational shows at all with venomous. the point of doing shows is to teach the good of these reptiles along with the dangers so what the hell you doing for a show? oh thats right you just act stupid and teach kids its ok to screw with venomous snakes.

i dont think my question was ever answered, what is the purpose of having/keeping venomoid hots. as i said, i can potentially see it for educational purposes only. i dont see what the purpose is of putting an animal that has natural, god-given properties, and taking them away from them, so that the keeper can feel safe. if one doesnt want to reap the affects of a possible venomous bite, do not keep those that which can deliver that bite.

:iagree:

Hi Ryan, the way i see it there is NO reason other than educational use to have a venomoid. if you are worried about getting bit dont get them at all, things do happen and as most of us here have said they are still not 100% safe. there are absolutly no benifits of having a venomoid over a venomous unless its used for education. thats just my view on it. everyone have theirs so im not knocking anyones