maia. excellent post, and couldnt agree more. it is a mutilation procedure. i have hots, and in my opinion, do not own a hot, if you are uncomfortable with its full potential.

ok im going to get in on this 1 and post once and only once and yall can have at it. my view is this i do not agree with a person buying or having a venomoid surg done on a hot if they only intend on using it to sit in their home just so they can tell their friends look what i got its cool or for them to have one just so they can play with it like a ball python. venomous is venomous if it has venom or not and should be treated like its 100% hot. if you do not intend on using venomoids in a productive way then you should not have them period. if you get a venomoid just to breed them because u dont want to get bite then whats going to happen when the babies pop? they just going to stay in a dirty cage cause you are scared to get them out to clean it? i myself deal with hots and i also use venomoids for educational shows for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to lessing the risk of someone getting hurt if it does happen to get away from me but i still treat it like it 100% hot. i still use hooks and everything in the same way i would with a hot with 100% venom. i also use 6@1/2' glass walls around me and the venomoid so it lessings the chance of escapes. also i never tell anyone that i do shows for that they are venomoid so they wont get any ideas in their heads hey these guy are safe and we can play with them. there should never be any free handing or petting of a hot even if its a venomoid or not. a venomoid is dangerous no mater who does the surg but it lowers the risk if the person is experienced with the surg but they are STILL DANGEROUS! so now i will list what i think is ok and not ok

i think it is ok to have Venomoids ONLY if they are used for educational purposes!

i DO NOT think its ok to have them just to look at are try to play with like a boa or python!

i also think you need experience with hots before you even think about doing educational shows with venomoids, things do happen and think of what will happen if someone else gets hurt because you didnt know what you were doing! just a note just incase anyone not experienced will say ok im going to do shows

thank you i am done!

A freind of mine that has been in the hot community far longer then I have had a vet do this surgery on dead animals. This Vet said that the tissue around the gland and the gland itself can be mistaken. If any gland is laeft behind it can repair itself and the animal once again become venomous. That is why your said vendor will never put in writting that a snake he does this two will NEVER become venomous again. Becuase there is a chance.

Yes it was freehandled within striking range of the public!

This thread is showing me a lot of people are educating themselves on this subject.... WOW That is great

It is sad though. Soon there may not be anything to fight about. I have seen in the last 2 years this hobby be ripped apart by ourselves. We spend so much time on things that dont matter.

I told Rich this. But I am to the point where I want to take my animals and just fade away and just care for them. The hobby is no longer a hobby.Not becuase the animals are not fun but becuase the people are making it not fun.

Alter this...... Do this....Dont do that..... You have to breed this way........ You have to sell this way...... Shows are dumb.....

I have heard it all. I was in the hobby when it was great. I got help from people like the Bells, BHB, Hampers, and many other great people that use to vend the Ohio show. I am still friends with many of them.

I love my hots. I feel they to will be ripped away from me. One reason is a vet wanting to make more money and put venomous species into the hands of people that do not need to have them. For what to be cool? I tell you what keep your pedestal. I will sit in my corner with the things I love. Dont care what people think.

Im out............

Did that vet write an article on that which ended up online, Gary?
I've seen two such accounts by vets, and both said essentially the same thing. I was going to try to dig them up for the OP, but I had other issues to address last night.

I will email Tanith to find out my friend!

Mmmm
 

When I look at web forums I see an endless lot of dribble prostituted as truth and gospel and I hate to say this, but the BS Factor has raised it's head here.
I am not here to convert people to venomoids.
Most posting against it are Zealots in the samer league as those who seek to ban private keeping of snakes because "it's cruel to stick them in boxes".
So lets just agree to disagree on the venomoids (right or wrong).
My main aim here is simply to stick to the truth and a comment here really pissed me off because I have seen it bounce around the web and it is total CRAP!
I read in this thread,

"A freind of mine that has been in the hot community far longer then I have had a vet do this surgery on dead animals. This Vet said that the tissue around the gland and the gland itself can be mistaken."
This is so ridiculous as to be stupid.
Yes, if the practitioner is blind, deaf and stupid, he may confuse GLAND tissue with the MUSCLE surrounding it. But most 4 year olds could tell them apart.
They are even :AR15firin:deadhorseeasily separated on a three-day old roadkill!
... Now lets think of some other excuse to bag venomoids....
ALL THE BEST - RAYMOND HOSER

Before the flames fly re the above pic
 

The Taipans in the image above MUST by law be venomoid in our legal jurisdiction in order to allowed in the displays they do daily.
Also under S32 of the OH and S Act here, I must look after my staff who handle the snakes and they are by law prohibited from handling venomous snakes with venom in tact when vet certified venomoids are an option.
And the snakes shown have been free handled daily for years and we think that's better than sticks and killer tongs for frequently handled snakes.
BTW We don't trade venomoids, ours are in house in Australia and always disclosed as such as we regard it unethical to pretend otherwise, although business rivals without said snakes never cease complaining.
ALL THE BEST

im still trying to understand, why have a venomoid snake (for anything maybe other than educational purpose). if one doesnt want the chance to get bit by a hot, dont keep a hot

ok sorry couldnt hold back on this 1. tell me if im misunderstanding it but in your country they dont want to export snakes for world to share in their snakes because they want them protected and kept in their country but they make you turn them all venomous into venomoids? that is still destroying the nature of these snakes. its one thing to be productive and use them for educational purposes but just to own them is not right. thought our government was screwed up boy we all have issues. just let me know if im wrong