Falys..where to draw the line???
 

OK ive sat an watched as my fav local gets to lookin more an more like a nosy be or an ambanja more then that red white an blue that got me into falys...Im sorry people that thought you would get a good deal on a faly you didnt... im sorry all the wanting in the world isnt goin to make some of these crosses falys... the prob here is that these people actually think they have a faly an wanna get females for them.. I know what i concider a faly just kinda wonderin what everyone else thinks of all these NEW COLOR PHASES of falys are they falys or like me do you think there just crosses bein passed as falys cause people cant be honest?

There are definitely more Faly crosses out there then actual Faly!! The problem is you have big time breeders selling off crosses as pure and people believe them.

Got to agree with Mr. Clark and you ... you're going to have a hard time getting a pure Faly locale when it's so easy to cross-breed and then sell the off-spring as pure. They're also very similar to the Ambato blue bar morph.

LOL well thats sad 101 views an only laura an rob comment..
Come on people ya see it happening pretending it isnt happening wont make it better. those of you who have them crosses need to just tell the truth instead of tellin people who have them cross thats there faly looks awesome do em a favor an tell em the truth. to many newbies wantin a"faly" are gettin burned not even knowin better.

It would be nice to actually be able to talk about whats realy goin on with the faly local instead of the lies goin around about what is an isnt a faly.

I am hear to talk faly but I guess no one else want to talk.:confused:

HIyas lee
yeah i didnt figure they would seein he still hasnt posted pics of the pure falys hes produced.. im tired of it to tell the truth the ones talkin the loudest over there are the ones who cant show me a real faly theve forduced...Its sad..

I'm here...so all the people that are really into producing PURE Faly are here where are the bullies that produce junk and call it pure?

Wonder why he wont come here an talk he continues to talk where he knows i cant.. His opinion was given for no other reason then its my faly i porduced from another top breeders offspring.. Ive yet to see him post up pics of the pure flays hes produced...

I don't think he's allowed on here anymore. There's a BOI on it somewhere.

annnnnnnnnd the thread is now closed on cham forums LOL

It figures i musta missed that one it doesnt surprise me if theres a llong list on boi fro people hes screwed over i didnt post my misdealing with the crook.

And the thread is NO more:shootfoot

Yeah i see that... what a bunch of bull you all wanna see why he did that?
here ya go..
From: The Chameleon Company <chameleoncompany@verizon.net>
To: "robmd1 @ Chameleon Forums" <robertnichols3@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, August 13, 2011 6:36:33 PM
Subject: Re: hannibal male

Rob,
Well, he looks fantastic ! He also looks like one of the Faly variations. He could be 100% Faly. Faly-banjas look more Ambanja than does he. Whether we mislabeled a cage, or pulled him from a different cage by mistake, I can't possibly know. We had a couple of mis-labeled clutches last year, but if my memory serves me correctly, they were animals that were supposed to be Nosy Be, but were Ambanja. I have none of his sibling brothers here, whatever the clutch, but wish that I did. Or all of his sisters to use as breeders. I would consider him a Faly, and breed him as such, and sell his offspring as such. That is the color-group he demonstrates.

Jim

On 8/13/2011 8:50 PM, robmd1 @ Chameleon Forums wrote:
> This is a message from robmd1 at Chameleon Forums ( http://www.chameleonforums.com/forum.php ). The Chameleon Forums owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email.
>
> To email robmd1, you can use this online form:
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> OR, by email:
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> This is the message:
>
> hiya jim
> my name is rob and i bought hanibal male 907-3, doh 6-16-2010 an i been watchin how hes turnin out compared to someone else that has a hannibal male from supposedly same clutch an i think theres a mix up somewhere cause my male looks nothing like hannibal but looks more faly then most falys forsale rite now. id like to get this figured out as i wanted a hannibal male not a faly banja here is the thread of what he looks like, can you tell me what you think?
> http://www.chameleonforums.com/what-...er-am-i-62040/
> maybe a falybanja got loose an put in the hannibal cage?

It's a shame. I've been pondering selling my Raiden boy lately because I wanna get some WC blood going instead but theres such a stigma even around that line still.

oh i should mention mine was the first email diff times between west coast me and east coast him

If its raiden an nala ? keep it theres nothing wrong with those its the nika female that was the prob he just dont wanna admit it, noones callin the others crosses just the ones that turned out ambilobe.. the ones he sent me and that one the guy in canada had "it died" those are not faly an wont ever be falys, just like a few others that some have plain and simple...

Yep it's all fuzzy to Jim...breeding ethics would not be one of his strong suits

Yeah its a Raiden/Nala boy. He's my boy Zero who I've posted pics up on the forums before. I don't see how this is not a Faly. :D

Wow that's not cool at all a big time breeder saying yeah I sold you a ambanja but he looks faly and if I had his sisters I would breed and sell them as faly... That is so not cool and the reason so many get screwed getting this locale....

More people should have faly6s that look like that guy... theres so much B.S. over falys an most of the BS is from ones that cant produce a real faly.

That email was the first one an the responce i got from jim it totaly blew any respect i could have for someone whos supposedly bred so many chams an seen so many. it seems alot of jims stuff turns out looking odd or not what people expect..

Yeah it blew my mind that was his responce, but tehn after talkin to people seems it happens alot when ya get stuff from jim ive yet to see a "flay" jims produced ive seen alot of cross lookin chams.

Your right I think the ethics in most of the large breeders in the US and Canada leave a lot to be desired. If this locale stays clean it will be through small hobbyists and not through the bigger breeders that are more about the money.

The best we all can do is know who's got the good stuff and continue trying to make the breed better. I haven't been doing this as long as some but I do know what to look for and what most of us have is what I want my Faly to look like.

Rite on and others know what to look for also, the ones makin the big stink about it are the ones with the crosses or questionable ones that juat dont wanna admit it.. They saw the name faly an the cheap prices an jumped.. all my falys i paid 500-750 apiece for and noone was callin them crosses bk then that i saw an now allasudden because i have em there crosses coming from the guy i know sells crosses knowingly?

I almost never use Fauna anymore, so thanks for directing me here. I must say the Faly they were arguing over in my thread is a perfect representation of a Nosy Faly. He is almost 100% white and covered in red rain. His baby blues are now popping too. I have bought faly after faly from large scale, respectable, breeders and their falys have been nothing close. Rob's faly is perfect looking. If they were calling him an Ambanja, I seriously worry about what they are selling. I mean Ambanja really? How many ambanjas are white with red rain all over them. In my experience ambanjas have a large rostral process and Robs faly has nothing of the sort. What a shame, they deleted the post and I missed it. I will make a new thread when I get the perfect photo. :ack2:

Honestly I saw nothing that would say other than Faly. Still young and lots of coloring up to do as well. Like I said above we all know what we have and what people want.

On the topic of drawing the line, do you guys believe in allowing some wiggle room for the natural genetics of the locale to vary a bit? Like one that's a lot more blue with red rain, or more yellow on the face, etc. If all other locales have variety within it, naturally, what do you guys think are the outer limits of the bell curve for this locale?

Say, if white, red, and blue, are the bulk of normal for this locale, what variation - if any- do you guys allow and still consider the animal a faly?

There most certainly is variation. The thing is many that are being passed off as pure have less red in them than a lot of Nosy Be's have. They have the dark rich blues of Ambanja's or rainbow colors like ambilobe's. These chams are obviously crossed. Now Tom's baby from Rob's recent Kush clutches has more red then my guy and mine has more blues but the blues are a greenish blue and the animal will go from aqua to a deeper green color. The red rain goes from red to black in color. Many CB animals loose the yellow in there cheeks almost all together and even WC after sheds will have much less of the yellow in the face. We have to contribute that to diet because it will change in the same animal. You can look at my WC that won the photo contest this month and see all the yellow, after this past shed it's much more subtle and the skin that came off is YELLOW. Also when the animal fires up you should be able to visibly see some white body appearing and the striping of the bars get more defined.

What is everyone's thoughts on these descriptions?

yes olimpia there is wiggle room but some theres no diff between them and a nosy be or the extreame case a faly thats got yellow an orange in its body, even alittle yellow in the body a be ok as long as it isnt overpowering neon yellow like was the case in some "falys" i recieved an then was accused of switching out.. A few years ago we had this debate when a green faly showed up"watermelon" some people had a cow "i wasnt one" i liked watermelon an he looked faly to me but now we have big breeders sellin falys that just arnt falys and at some point someones gotta say something i did ive taken alot of heat for it but all ive said is true.

LIke ive said its the peanut gallery tryen get me banned over there notice no comments on him breeding an knowingly sellin crosses no pics nothing but alot of hot air...

Crazy I missed all this yesterday, but I am kind of glad I did. Either way, I am very happy with this Faly Rob sent me. It is 100% Faly, no doubt about it.

I will also stick up for Jim too. I have purchased thousands of dollars in chameleons from Jim and all were exactly what I wanted. I will bet that Jim has the most chameleons of anyone here in the states. I have never purchased any of his falys because they always sold out too quickly. However, my personal experiences with Jim he has always been honest and sent very healthy animals.

After prodding he said my animals photos were nice looking...not the best he had seen but healthy....LMAO You just can not honestly say they are not Faly!!!

an thats fine tom i deat with jim an got a crosss then got told to breed that cross an a pure faly that to me is a crook an i careless how many crosses hes bred an sold ill never buy one..

He said it had been 6-7 years since he had been on here...and yet his last active date was 12-07-2008 so a little over 3 years...and from what I can find it doesn't look like he is banned but not sure if that shows on his profile.

ok sorry

Do we want this moved to BOI?? Rob?

Absolute April is Chameleon Company banned?

iono i didnt really know where to post it i was goin to post it in the boi but wasnt sure if thats where it should go. all i know is im tired of the lies goin on over there.

Wow look at all these people looking but not saying something I want to hear what other people have to say