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More legislation in PA
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/...r=2233&pn=3155
Contact the following to let them know. Gary Haluska 114 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202073 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2073 (717) 787-3532 Fax: (717) 783-7548 Hon. Joseph F. Brennan 25A East Wing PO Box 202133 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2133 (717) 772-9902 Fax: (717) 772-2284 Hon. Mike Carroll 527E Main Capitol Building PO Box 202118 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2118 (717) 787-3589 Fax: (717) 780-4763 Hon. H. Scott Conklin 325 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202077 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2077 (717) 787-9473 Fax: (717) 780-4764 Hon. Peter J. Daley 214 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202049 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2049 (717) 783-9333 Fax: (717) 783-7558 Hon. Gordon Denlinger 211 Ryan Office Building PO Box 202099 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2099 (717) 787-3531 Fax: (717) 705-1951 Hon. Garth D. Everett 430 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202084 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2084 (717) 787-5270 Fax: (717) 772-9958 Hon. Neal P. Goodman G07 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202123 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2123 (717) 787-2798 Fax: (717) 772-9948 Hon. Eddie Day Pashinski 203 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202121 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2121 (717) 783-0686 Fax: (717) 772-2284 Hon. Curtis G. Sonney 149B East Wing PO Box 202004 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2004 (717) 783-9087 Fax: (717) 787-2005 Hon. Jerry Stern 315A Main Capitol Building PO Box 202080 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2080 (717) 787-9020 Fax: (717) 787-2420 this bill is goin to the same games and fisheries committees as 2063 but here are the names and numbers again Hon. John R. Evans 107 Ryan Office Building PO Box 202005 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2005 (717) 772-9940 Fax: (717) 772-7099 Hon. Todd Rock 162A East Wing PO Box 202090 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2090 (717) 783-5218 Fax: (717) 260-6505 Hon. Kurt A. Masser 414 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202107 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2107 (717) 260-6134 Fax: (717) 787-9463 Hon. Bryan Cutler 147A East Wing PO Box 202100 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2100 (717) 783-6424 Fax: (717) 772-9859 Hon. Joe Emrick 160B East Wing PO Box 202137 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2137 (717) 260-6159 Hon. Garth D. Everett 430 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202084 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2084 (717) 787-5270 Fax: (717) 772-9958 Hon. Keith Gillespie 45 East Wing PO Box 202047 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2047 (717) 705-7167 Fax: (717) 772-9869 Hon. Marcia M. Hahn 402 A Irvis Office Building P O Box 202138 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2138 (717) 783-8573 Fax: (717) 783-3899 Hon. Doyle Heffley 423 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202122 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2122 (717) 260-6139 Hon. Mark K. Keller 5 East Wing PO Box 202086 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2086 (717) 783-1593 Fax: (717) 705-7012 Hon. David M. Maloney Sr. 6A East Wing PO Box 202130 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2130 (717) 260-6161 Hon. Dan Moul G32 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202091 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2091 (717) 783-5217 Fax: (717) 772-5499 Hon. Michael Peifer 153A East Wing PO Box 202139 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2139 (717) 783-2037 Fax: (717) 705-1948 Hon. Jeffrey P. Pyle 147B East Wing PO Box 202060 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2060 (717) 783-5327 Fax: (717) 260-6511 Hon. Mike Reese 163A East Wing PO Box 202059 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2059 (717) 783-9311 Fax: (717) 260-6502 Hon. Edward G. Staback 225 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202115 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2115 (717) 783-5043 Fax: (717) 787-1231 Hon. Kevin P. Murphy G01 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202113 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2113 (717) 787-8981 (877) 841-1450 Toll Free Fax: (717) 705-1958 Hon. Gerald J. Mullery 115B East Wing PO Box 202119 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2119 (717) 783-4893 Hon. Angel Cruz 528E Main Capitol Building PO Box 202180 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2180 (717) 787-1407 Fax: (717) 780-4769 Hon. H. William DeWeese 331 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202050 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2050 (717) 783-3797 Fax: (717) 772-3605 Hon. Marc J. Gergely 325 Main Capitol Building PO Box 202035 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2035 (717) 783-1018 Fax: (717) 780-4779 Hon. Gary Haluska 114 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202073 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2073 (717) 787-3532 Fax: (717) 783-7548 Hon. John Hornaman 27B East Wing PO Box 202003 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2003 (717) 772-2297 Fax: (717) 780-4767 Hon. Deberah Kula G05 Irvis Office Building PO Box 202052 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2052 (717) 772-1858 Fax: (717) 780-4784 Hon. Tim Mahoney 324 Main Capitol PO Box 202051 Harrisburg, PA 17120-2051 (717) 772-2174 Fax: (717) 780-4786 |
This is getting ridiculous! at the rate these law changes are going we'll have to move out of the country to keep our animals. CALLING, MAILING AND FAXING!!!
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I know, I'm in very serious consideration to moving to SC or a 3rd world country in Africa where I can take power and create a reptile friendly country... but perhaps I've said too much already lol
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I'm sorry I don't understand what reptiles "attack"....do they think we are keeping Velociraptors?
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I'm constantly attacked by my crested geckos and snakes. Everytime I open the cage they ruthlessly beat me with a baseball bat.... The beatings usually stop after I give them my wallet and ipod.
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Oh joy, more.....
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Are you freaking kidding me!
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This is frickin BS, what are they going to do come to your house to see if the animals are properly taken care of and if they don't think so they can take them?
25$ annual fee for keeping and 200$ for dealing? So if I breed and have several clutches do I have to pay 25$ for each animal in addition to 200$ every year if I want to sell them? |
I think the breeders permit would cover the hatchlings. However to get any permit someone would have to inspect the premises and pass you. And how trained are these people going to be as far as what secure is? A rack is secure but they may insist on aquariums with screen tops that "latch".
The really scary part is you need a permit in order to buy any exotic before you can purchase it. I can see alot of small businesses and shows shutting down because of this and again to get a permit in the first place you need an inspection, so your son wants a $5 anole, you have to pay $25 for that permit and wait for an inspection before you can run to the local pet shop to buy a now $30 anole. |
Keep in mind...not just reptiles...all animals listed are everything but cats and dogs and what you can see in the wild....so Goldfish, Betta, salt water fish...so every fish you see in a pet store, gerbil, hamsters, ferrets, all small animals, all species of birds....finches to red wing macaw every single animal you can buy in a pet store will be included....all will need permits..... Nonindigenous....means every single living thing but native species...but cats and dogs will be safe because they are considered and acceptable pet.
Travis |
This is so stupid. I feel for all of you in PA.
Just a matter of time I'm sure till it gets to my state. :( |
God I didn't even think about the birds! I have to get a damn permit for my cockatiel I've had longer than my kid and my fiance!
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That's ridiculous...a permit for a COCKATIEL?? That's not an EXOTIC pet! It's a common one.
Parakeets, finches, lovebirds, canaries...all common birds. Hamsters, rabbits, guinea pigs, gerbils...not considered exotics by normal people. EXOTICS around here are considered reptiles, chinchillas, ferrets, sugar gliders, flying squirrels, frogs... |
Nonindigenous....just the opposite of this:
in·dig·e·nous (n-dj-ns) adj. 1. Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment. See Synonyms at native. 2. Intrinsic; innate. Never seen in the wild....Parakeets, finches, lovebirds, canaries...all common birds. Hamsters, rabbits, guinea pigs, gerbils...not considered exotics by normal people. If its good for one species lets keep it fair for all...not fair to just list reptiles....birds have a better chance in the wild as do rodents. We all know its to cold here in the wild for most reptiles to survive. I say list them all and maybe enough owners of everything will step forward to fight it...reptile owners are to small of a community...but list everything and everyone will fight. Travis |
The wording in the law states
Amending Title 30 (Fish) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated 2 Statutes, providing for nonindigenous and exotic reptile and 3 amphibian possession permits which I take as being a law only for herps since it says "nonindigenous and exotic reptile and amphibian" I dont think this has any affect on other animals although it should considering other animals (horses, dogs, cats...) have proven to be more dangerous and more costly to native wildlife. |
As one can see, most of this has come to light most recently since the problems in Florida, and the addition of several species to the lacey act. Now, I know a lot of small towns and municipality have enacted local legislation regarding reptile ownership and exhibition in the past. Most of those in our general area have seemingly stemmed from incidences from irresponsible owners, and have only mildly affected those responsible owners in those particular areas.
Now, it seems that every state wants to hop on the ban wagon. If I am correct, I believe that most, if not all governing forces for fish and wildlife in Pa, come out of the Harrisburg office. If anyone has been watching the news for the past 6 months plus, I am sure you have seen or heard about all of the financial problems Harrisburg is facing. It is financially broke and cannot meet its own payroll. It has had to hire outside sources to manage their funds and finances. The mayor is constantly at odds with fellow council members, and the city itself is I believe headed for federal bankruptcy court. Now I realize that this pertains to harrisburg city, but it also reflects upon the state government. I guess my thinking on all of this is, with the world itself in a state of poor economy, gas prices on the rise, terrorism what it is and the list goes on. Who is going to pay for all of this, who is going to pay for the education of the so-called (governing body), who is going to pay their salaries. Where is this coming from, I ask? TAXPAYER $ Last time I checked, we at some point elect these people into office, and we the taxpayers pay their salaries. Why is it that we tolerate paying someone to tell us what we can and cannot do. If the reptile community comes together to be heard, floods the office with phone calls, emails. Go to the public meetings and hearings I think at some time it will become very overwhelming and possibly more then they bargained for. I had a good friend tell me once when it came to a good fight, I may lose, but I'm not going to make it easy for you, and your never gonna forget me |
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Crap forgot some. The other law says all nonindengenous would require a permit and starting jan 1 2013 no permits will be issued, thus a ban. It lists a small number of species that are exempt, cats and dogs are not exempt. All birds are.
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The amendment 2904.1 under house bill 2233 does not state that there will be no permits issued after January 1, 2013.
It does state that the commission may issue a permit, upon application once all requirements are met, and that the commission at the discretion of the director can revoke or suspend any permit for any violation under 2904.1 So at this time, under current bill 2233 and amendment 2904.1 there is no ban. This is more regulation then restriction. |
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Here's the part that really scares me... "Shelter, care and protection.--No permit provided for in this section shall be granted until the commission is satisfied that the provisions for housing and caring for the nonindigenous or exotic reptile or amphibian and for protecting the public are proper and adequate and in accordance with the standards established by the commission" So how will they know if you are providing the provisions for housing and caring, will they have someone personally inspect your house and enclosures? |
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http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/549454 If you notice what i said and who it was to, it was not referring to this bill(which is BS). The bill I posted(which seems ignored on this forum) does actually ban most mammals including cats and dogs, but oddly makes sugar gliders and hedgehogs legal plus a few other various animals. |
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How did you come up with that interpretation? |
Which part? Ignored or the ban? Ignored because not much traffic addressing it, unless I missed something(which is possible). Banned stuff because the law lists all nonindengginous animals besides those on a small list which were exempt, as needing a permit. It then goes on to say it will no longer issue permits. What do you call that? I call it a ban. If u need a permit and they wont issue them, its a ban.
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They are clearly referring to what they define as "Exotic Wildlife". Nothing in your link even remotely suggests they are banning cats and dogs.
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I know many people who read it the same as I. Lets review. The law says
all nonindigenous animals. There is no native(ie indigenous) cats or dogs, thus they fall into this category, no way to argue that. Lets review exempted species shall we. Lets!! class Aves (birds), any member of the families Equidae (horses, asses and zebras), Camelidae (camels, alpacas and llamas), Cervidae (deer, moose and elk), Bovidae (wild cattle and spiral- horned antelopes), Muridae (rats and mice), Chinchillidae (chinchillas and viscachas), Leporidae (rabbits and hares), 20110HB1398PN2997 - 2 - Erinaceidae (hedgehogs and moonrats), Petauridae (gliders and striped possums) or any member of the species Mustela furo (domestic ferrets) or Cavia porcellus (domestic guinea pigs). So those are the exempt species. Hmmm. as both cats and dogs are nonnative, and not listed in the exemp species in the eyes of that law they are exotic species. Thus you would need a permit, and they will not be issueing them. Thus they will be banned. It doesnt matter what the laws intent it, it matters what it reads. And it reads cats and dogs are exotics and banne4 "Exotic wildlife d |
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I am fairly confident in two things. The law you are referring to will pass, and dogs and cats are safe. I think your interpretation is wrong, but lets just wait and see shall we? Lets! .........make that three things. I will still be here after December. |
What about all the illegal people in Norristown where I grew up & other areas of PA. Lets get them out before we talk about making pets illegal.
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Show me where the proposed amendment, or the law it is trying to amend, considers dog and cats "wildlife". You, and apparently those you know, are over thinking the wording of the proposed amendment.
I am done here. You obviously think you can't be wrong and your "ridiculous" interpretation can't be argued, so what is the point in continuing this back and forth? |
I have shown you repeatedly, but Ill try one last time to get you to understand. This is copied directly from the bill, found here-->
http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/549454 Exotic wildlife." The phrase includes[, but is not limited 15 to, all bears, coyotes, lions, tigers, leopards, jaguars, 16 cheetahs, cougars, wolves and any crossbreed of these animals 17 which have similar characteristics in appearance or features. 1 The definition is applicable whether or not the birds or animals 2 were bred or reared in captivity or imported from another state 3 or nation.] all nonindigenous animals and the following, 4 regardless of whether the animals are bred or reared in 5 captivity or imported from another state or nation: 6 (1) All members of the order Primates (nonhuman 7 primates). 8 (2) All members of the family Ursidae (bears). 9 (3) All members of the species: 10 (i) Canis latrans (coyotes). 11 (ii) Canis lupus (gray wolves). 12 (iii) Canis rufus (red wolves). 13 (iv) Felis rufus (bobcat). 14 (v) Panthera leo (lions). 15 (vi) Panthera tigris (tigers). 16 (vii) Panthera pardus (leopards). 17 (viii) Panthera unica (snow leopards). 18 (ix) Neofelis nebulosa (clouded leopard). 19 (x) Panthera onca (jaguars). 20 (xi) Acinonyx jubatus (cheetahs). 21 (xii) Felis concolor (cougars). 22 (xiii) Any crossbreed of the animals specified in 23 this paragraph which have similar characteristics in 24 appearance or features. 25 The term shall not be construed to include any member of the 26 class Aves (birds), any member of the families Equidae (horses, 27 asses and zebras), Camelidae (camels, alpacas and llamas), 28 Cervidae (deer, moose and elk), Bovidae (wild cattle and spiral- 29 horned antelopes), Muridae (rats and mice), Chinchillidae 30 (chinchillas and viscachas), Leporidae (rabbits and hares), 20110HB1398PN2997 - 2 - 1 Erinaceidae (hedgehogs and moonrats), Petauridae (gliders and 2 striped possums) or any member of the species Mustela furo 3 (domestic ferrets) or Cavia porcellus (domestic guinea pigs). In red is the part that applys. As you can see it says that all nonidingenous animals are considered exotic wildlife. In green you see the species that the law says are exempt. It takes the time to list cattle and horses but not cat nor dogs. Again, as they are not included in the list of exempt species and cats and dogs are nonindingenous animals, therefor they fall into that category in which the law says they are exotic wildlife. The text is right in front of you. How can you argue it?? Its spelled out. Im sorry if you dont understand but its what the law says. You obviously can't back up your argument of I'm wrong and just storm off. I will ask yet again, if you are that sure that I am wrong, point out the flaws in my argument. The law is right in front of you, show me where and how Im wrong and I am more than man enough to admit my mistake. |
Perhaps if you were reading the most up-to-date version of the bill you would see that your interpretation is wrong.
http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/620164 Quote:
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Did not know they finally updated it. Ty for the correction.
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ok- so i am completly confused- is it the permit speil or a ban ( since after some date no more permits will be given out? I am reading all this info, and its confusing- where is it saying after certian date no ermits will be given out?
would it be 25 per animal or what? |
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after I posted i did see a paragraph that did sound kinda confusing:
(1) Commencing on January 1, 2012 2013, the commission 27 shall not issue permits for the possession of exotic 28 wildlife, except as set forth in sections 2930 (relating to 29 propagating permits), 2962 (relating to exotic wildlife 30 dealer permits) and 2964(a) (relating to menagerie permits) 20110HB1398PN2997 - 3 - nd 58 Pa. Code § 147.302 (relating to general). However- 25$ per animal is rediculous- i have a breeding collection- so its gonna be expensive. And for what reason? i guess they have to suck what money they can get b/c they are having money issues.. Yeah, them looking at my place has its drawbacks.. but its not like I have anything to hide... My snakes are housed properly- but how can I trust the people inspecting know proper knowledge? Are rack systems gonna be considered secure by them? Or are they gonna think its inhumane that the bps are kept in the racks despite the issues keeping in tanks? how often do they have to check your place? t just draws up too many questions.... Is there any talk of when this is gonna be set in place? Any word from USARK? |
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I'm pretty sure the bill that will not allow permits after jan 2013 is HB 1398, I believe and hope this is just for large exotics such as lions tigers and such, I don't see anything in that bill mentioning reptiles specifically. There a bll HB 2233 that is specifically for reptile that state that a 25$ fee per animal will be needed for a permit, it makes no mention that they will not be issued after jan 2013 but states that that's when the law will implemented.
It seems that reptile keepers are safe for now, I hope this is the case anyway, I'll take a tax over a ban. |
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