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-   -   Abnormality? (https://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308298)

stevek123 03-22-2012 05:30 PM

Abnormality?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Do you see anything?

hhmoore 03-22-2012 05:35 PM

You mean other than the bugeyes, and possibly asymmetric upper jaw?

stevek123 03-22-2012 05:43 PM

What causes this and is it hereditary?

hhmoore 03-22-2012 06:19 PM

The bug eyes, in many species, are a product of inbreeding...obviously, I can't say from just that picture whether that is the cause, and whether it is strictly a hereditary condition.
If I produced that snake, I'd probably cull it....if I purchased it, I'd be pi$$ed!!

stevek123 03-24-2012 12:25 PM

I definately did not produce this guy. Thanks Harold

AGoodwin 03-24-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hhmoore (Post 1434775)
The bug eyes, in many species, are a product of inbreeding...obviously, I can't say from just that picture whether that is the cause, and whether it is strictly a hereditary condition.
If I produced that snake, I'd probably cull it....if I purchased it, I'd be pi$$ed!!


May I ask why you would cull it? Are the bug eyes really that much of a problem? Do they affect the health or quality of life of the snake? I mean, I wouldn't use it as a breeder if it was inbred, but I don't see why you would want to kill it.

hhmoore 03-24-2012 05:35 PM

What would you have me do with it?

Seriously, why would a breeder not cull a genetic defect?
I know that culling sounds harsh, but think about it from the perspective of a responsible breeder - you've produced a sub par animal with visible abnormalities (not talking color/pattern). I understand the concept of pet only homes, but I'm simply not that trusting. It's been shown repeatedly over the years that many people will breed them, regardless of any promises, which further weakens the genetics of the morph. I happen to feel that, as a breeder, I have a responsibility to the animals - not just the individual babies, but the species. Part of that responsibility is to use sound breeding practices, and provide strong offspring.
I've railed on the practice of purchasing sibling pairs for breeding for years, and I frankly don't see a whole lot of sense in basing a breeding project on inbreeding in any of its forms. Yes, it has a place in morph development....but too many people are short sighted, and don't consider the impact. Compound that with people looking for the cheapest way to reach their goals - as opposed to "doing it right", which costs more & is more work - and it's a recipe for disaster.

Yes, I could give such a snake away (and HOPE that it didn't get bred later), or keep it myself...but, realistically, one's options are limited in that regard. I've got numerous pet only snakes - and they take time, space, and money to maintain. Maybe my thought processes seem strange to some, but I care. I want to do the best that I can, and I don't want my name associated with crap. The decision to cull is not always an easy one, but sometimes it is the right one (IMO). Some people don't agree with that, and that is their choice :shrug01:

Let's put it in this perspective:
Say you had just spent about $1200 on your dream morph, and opened the box to find a bug eye like that....how would you feel? Say you produced it - what would you do?

AGoodwin 03-24-2012 05:53 PM

I suppose I see your point, and you do indeed have a right to your opinion. Myself, I would keep it as a pet, but that is because I have my own personal qualms about killing any animal (or allowing to be killed). Be it a snake with bug eyes, or a kitten that the mother is trying to cull herself. I am not the person who lets nature take its course. Its just not who I am. Unless an animal is suffering dearly, I fight to keep it alive, not get rid of it because only the strongest should be allowed to survive.

I suppose this may hurt me in the future if I myself produce a " sub par " animal and I have to make a choice. In no circumstance would I allow an animal that had an obvious defect to breed, but I do see your point. How many "pets" can you really keep, and who can you really trust other than yourself to never breed the animal. Maybe once I have had some experience breeding, I will understand it better.

stevek123 03-24-2012 06:01 PM

I understand where you are coming from Amanda, however, if you paid for it not knowing it had the defect would you be inclined to keep it, and how would you feel toward the seller?

AGoodwin 03-24-2012 06:16 PM

I would try to return it to the seller, if not then keep it. Would I be upset, YES! My comments were twards Harald stating that if he had bred it, he would have culled it.

I do not at all agree with the breeder allowing this animal to be sold to someone without disclosing its problems. And I certainly believe you have more than right to be upset. Have you contacted the seller to discuss this problem at all?


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