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Logic formula: p --> q only True when p is true and q is true If the gland is intact after a ductectomy on an Elapid (p), then the snake can potentially regrow duct tissue (q). B) Venomoid, Inc has been implanting microchips all venomoids sold. C) Vipers are not free handled behind the table due to what you said; however, Gary claims as well as other people that a few years ago someone was handling a void Gabby. It is what it is, if someone was doing that, it's not done anymore. If the culprit was wearing a hat, then maybe i'm guilty. D) Only my subjective opinion, but I will guess it is a liability release form. |
OK, Mr. Reina. I'd like to ask a couple questions. One personal, one philosophical.
Why do you think it is a good thing to do this to venomous reptiles? I'm curious about your motivation. Why do you spend time writing posts? I know that is a bit blunt, but it is a sincere question. Second question: Who (or what) benefits from this? What benefit to society, the animals, and the people who buy them does this provide? |
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I would like to correct you. Please do NOT make false statements without any knowledge. Any opinions I have stated were my personal examples to simply answer Mr. Moore and your questions. If you want a concrete answer, please turn your head away from the monitor and pick up the phone and call (631) 745-7746 . Ask Dr. Sabatini directly so you don't have to dance around this for the rest of your life, then post the answer. I'll give you some rope, but I aint gonna pull you out my friend. Nobody wants to kill anyone or cause harm Gary. What's wrong with you? Why is it that you can discuss things in a mature manner and you always have to go in the deep end. You might have to move to England where voids are against the law that way you can say you saved a lot of people. Who has died? Who has gotten killed from a venomoid? Please let me see some real actual evidence about that? What snake sold by Dr. Sabatini since 2000 has been able to produce, inject, or partially grow anything? Finally, I understand what you want as far as stating veterinary malpractice in a document. I understand your point of view and the only thing i can say and only as an opinion is that document represents a legal liability release form. I'll say it again before someone quotes me to construct a well craft reply. It is ONLY my subjective opinion that the document presented to buyer when a venomoid is paid is a liability release form. Now, can i call Jeremy myself? sure. Can i find out for you? maybe. Why is it that i won't do it? Because since 2004 the topic of venomoids has been a hot item that several people like to express their opinions here, but when i asked anyone to give me a call or call someone or stop by the table to ask the question directly, nobody can do it, why? I've done plenty to put up information on my website, research for facts, find out information from Dr. Fry, contact AVMA, contact multiple venomoid owners and I even have spoken to Rich Richie. I did all of that because i had an interest in providing info to the general public so the confusion about voids can stop. These issues that you are concerned about should be directly addressed with the business in question. call or email Dr. Sabatini and tell him Christian sent you. I think I even gave you myphone number Gary and you never called me. |
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When I was a little kid I always wanted to work with snakes, I wanted to be a herpetologist since I was about 8 or 10 yrs old. However, my life took a different turn and I'm information security officer which is a lot different from a herpetologist. When I learned about venomoids, I was extremely interested in these procedures and how such magnificent animals can now be studied and kept in captivity in a safe manner. It was that facination with venomoids back in 2002-2003 that gave me the energy to learn about them and create my website as well as post information here and in other websites. I strongly believe it is only an option for buyers, an alternative, a choice. I also believe that it promotes safety if done by a licensed DVM. I have seen people that have come to us at Hamburg with missing fingers that have given use their venomous collections and asked if we could devenomize their snakes. Normally Dr. Sabatini doesn't do that at all, but he has done it for some people. It is somethin to admire to see an individual so passionate about venomous snakes and happy to receive his venomoid horn viper which bit him and the reason this person is missing a finger. I love snakes, ball pythons, large constrictors and arboreals, but i think venomous snakes are the most amazing of all. I truly think a venomoid is an option that people should consider. I think there is a monetary benefit for Dr. Sabatini as well as other licensed vets or people who have been performing these complicated procedures. Although, I know in the case of Raymond Hoser in Australia, the guy behind a huge petition against venomoids, he truly is passionate about what he does. His philosophy is different and I do not agree with him, but I only hope as a non-licensed individual with tremendous experience that he considers getting certified or getting some type of licensed to make his practice more legitimate. I think venomoids provide a significant benefit to reptile hobbysts who want to keep these animals because is legal but they keep them as pets. I think it is another safety precaution in addition to several precaution already in place by people who own hots. I have a lot of respect for people who have worked with hots and who choose to keep them. I know they follow protocols to keep teh snakes safe as well as their families and communities. I just believe that a venomoid is an added protection and it helps mitigate the risk. I also think venomoids are great alternatives at zoos. I think a zoo can mitigate the risk associated with the potential incidents of an envenomization by using venomoids. Dr. Sabatini has sold numerous venmoids to Zoos in the USA, Canada, and Latin America. YOu will be very surprised to see the number of animals that are sold online and outside ofthe hamburg show. there are people that want venomoids but due to all these discussions and opinions they want to stay quiet about it. I don't think like that. Venomoids by licensed vets are not against the law and I strongly see them as an alternative and I think I have the right to express my opinion, accept others, and understand other points of view. Finally, the number one reason as ironic as it sounds based on our recent discussions about a document that seems more confusing at defining what Gary and Mr. Moore want to read, the #1 benefits of venomoids is added safety to our community, our reptile owners, and I know the venomoid snakes do fine in captivity although the surgery is invassive. the snake needs about 2 weeks to heal before feeding. anyway, sorry for the long reply. |
No prob, thank you for an honest answer. I don't agree with all of it, but there might be some hope for you yet...:argue:
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I'm not a lawyer, but this is a link to a release of waiver & liability for a horse show.
http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/bbhors...ver%202008.pdf Maybe the document provided to buyers serves a similar purpose. protecting the business and the vet? |
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This is clearly an admission that there IS something to worry about in voids, which is what many of us have been saying all along. People don't spend money on lawyers unless there is a reason, and to get a release of liability drawn up by an attorney, clearly the seller is admitting that in fact there are situations where he may be liable and wants to be released from responsibility. |
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We're talking about a business vs. John Smith selling his captive breed copperheads that he butchered in his basement. John Smith might want to have people sign off on something so nobody knows about his series of inaccurate procedures on the copperheads; however, a release of liability is a common practice and if you don't know then you have just learned something new. What do you think happens when you take your cat for a surgical procedure to a vet? I'm afraid that if you do not understand these basic business practices that you may not have a great baseline to be discussing anything here, but I will read your posts since that's your right to express your opinion. I will listen to anyone. "Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story. " |
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