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-   -   My 1st Boa Breeding Attempt (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157107)

Twizted Paths 11-30-2009 10:29 PM

My 1st Boa Breeding Attempt
 
This is my first time trying to breed reptiles of any sort and I'm bloody nervous. Especially since these two are my favorite favorites. So sorry for the long post but hey, there's pictures :thumbsup:

This is the second time I put them together, the first time she just wasn't having it. I put them in Q tubs next to each other with one of his sheds in her tub for about three weeks. I talked to Joe and Nicole over at stripedboas and put them back together the day before thanksgiving.

Fitz (Cherry line male) had refused his last two feedings, gave himself minor nose rub trying to pop the lid next to her enclosure and left a sperm plug on my arm when I had him out to clean his cage.

Mi Cara (unknown Hypo) hasn't missed a meal since I've had her and gave herself minor noserub because I wouldn't take her out. (She is Not spoiled.) I printed out some boa breding stuff and used it to line her tub.

So I put them in a neutral tank, a damnably dark boaphile. I can't see anything unless they're right up on the glass or I stick the camera in there and take a pic with the flash.

Day one she spends the whole day smashing the crap out of him, I taped a picture to the front of the cage so she could see that he belonged on top of her. I spent the whole day hoping he was ok. Handling her every day I didn't realize how big she really is, he looks so small with her. Day two lots of cleaning urates and a possible lock up? I don't know. Stupid dark cage. *kicks rocks* Day three she's blue and more urates. Today I have more urates. Are they supposed to piss this much?! The last pic is from today, the second to last one is both their tails.

Sorry the pictures aren't better, I'm not that spiffy with a camera and I'm trying not to bug them a lot (trying really hard).

heathn 12-01-2009 07:56 PM

good luck with them!

Twizted Paths 12-01-2009 09:35 PM

Thanks! :D

SakaraGT4 12-01-2009 09:39 PM

good luck!!!

Artistry Exotics 12-02-2009 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twizted Paths (Post 824735)
I taped a picture to the front of the cage so she could see that he belonged on top of her.

:rofl:

Good luck! Hopefully they'll figure it out!

Twizted Paths 12-13-2009 02:36 PM

Thanks! I think she ovulated, so they may have figured it out. They've both shed and have been ignoring each other for the past three days so I'm going to pull her and try feeding them. Fitz hasn't accepted food for two months now.

First the pic of her swollen up, it looked bigger in person
Second, you can see her tail in the back, normal with no bulge here
Third, I realized that none of the pictures showed Fitz's pattern very well, so here's Fitz from this summer
And just because there's room for one more and I really like this shot of his head w/ her tail. The sun shows her color better. It's from this summer when I was deciding if I should or shouldn't.

Shadera 12-13-2009 08:26 PM

Fingers crossed for a litter of healthy, pretty young'uns!

Twizted Paths 12-13-2009 08:34 PM

Thanks, I'll actually be happy if nothing bad happens to these two. I've been reading horror stories so now I'm paranoid :(

Utta 03-17-2010 11:06 PM

Update is needed :yesnod:

Twizted Paths 03-17-2010 11:35 PM

I'm going with No.

She was looking promising, doing the I'm preggers boa thing and then she stopped & got normal sized/acting again. She's making up for lost meals with a vengeance too.

It was her first year being bred though so I wasn't really all that hopeful. I have Dyer line stripe/aberrant throwing hypo or a nicely striped Aby line to try her with again this year. Now I have an idea of her cycle timing so it should go better.

Fitz had to go over my brother's house since a couple of my other girls decided to ovulate this year to spite me. I didn't think they were ready to breed but Fitz disagreed and wouldn't go back on feed.

He's only taken two meals since September and one was puked back up. He's most likely out of the running for this coming season. I'll send him back over to my brother's house to avoid him staying off feed again if need be.

I'm not going to risk losing him just to maybe get some babies, no matter how pretty they would be.

Utta 03-17-2010 11:57 PM

Fitz>Fitzs "maybe"babies. i agree. *hopes he gets on feed soon!*

mxracer4life 03-18-2010 11:58 AM

It could of been ovulation that you seen, as far as her size increase. How long was the male in with her?

Twizted Paths 03-18-2010 02:23 PM

The first time he was in there for maybe ten minutes, she spazzed out and I went in with a hook and towels to pull him out. That was the first time (& only) she ever showed any aggression at all.

The second time in for about three weeks/month out for three days for attempted feeding, back in for another month, interest stopped and he was bullied over to the coldest corner while she bellied up on the heat so I pulled him for good.

I'm pretty sure I missed it when I pulled him out because she was flipping out on him. I don't care how wussed it makes me, I'm not having any of my snakes bit, tossed and bashed about.

I'm going to do the cages next to each other and tossing the males shed in with her thing again this year. Hopefully that way she won't bash/toss the male around the cage. I'm actually going to do it with the other girls as well since this year will be their first.

mxracer4life 03-18-2010 03:17 PM

Have you ever tried putting the female in the males cage? I had a female last year that would do that and I put her in the males cage and presto, I had a litter of 24. :) Have you ever read Jeff Ronne's book? It has a lot of interested facts about getting boas to breed.

Twizted Paths 03-18-2010 03:41 PM

I'll deff try that this year.

I've read Ronne and others, multiple times. Unfortunately, I don't think Cara is literate.

Thanks for the tips, I appreciate it :)

mxracer4life 03-18-2010 03:45 PM

Cara? What do you mean by that?

Twizted Paths 03-18-2010 07:30 PM

Lol, Cara is the big hypo girl. It was just a joke about her not going by the book like a good snake.

Shadera 03-18-2010 09:01 PM

There's always next year. There's plenty of goo in your future. :yesnod:

Twizted Paths 03-18-2010 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagickalMorphs (Post 895666)
There's always next year. There's plenty of goo in your future. :yesnod:

Thanks Shadi :beer:

Metachrosis 03-18-2010 09:40 PM

You could cool her down real good so she is in a lethargic
state :rofl:
She might snuggle up a little then :shrug01:

;)

Twizted Paths 03-18-2010 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metachrosis (Post 895714)
You could cool her down real good so she is in a lethargic
state :rofl:
She might snuggle up a little then :shrug01:

;)

"Coldness ~ The date rape drug of choice for boas" :rolleyes:

mxracer4life 03-19-2010 08:42 AM

Lol. Date rape drug, I love it! We have unlocked the secret of a "forced" breeding! We can make millions!

Metachrosis 03-19-2010 07:08 PM

Hopefully everyone takes that "cooling" in jest,
I dont do it or support it for any reason

polasian 03-19-2010 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metachrosis (Post 896240)
Hopefully everyone takes that "cooling" in jest,
I dont do it or support it for any reason

You hear that Bell? That's why you weren't successful...because Sargent T doesn't approve. :rolleyes:

Without further elaboration on how you came to that conclusion...the only thing that will be taken in jest, is "your post." :rolleyes_

You do understand that cooling periods are implemented to stimulate the natural breeding responses of these animals, right? To encouraging captive snakes to breed, its helpful (more like necessary) to mimic the climate of their place of origin. Sure, some will have successful results without any cooling period...however those are the exception...not the rule. Mother nature makes the rules, we just abide by them.

Tell us your secret...how did you train your snakes to ignore this process which guides their instinctual response?

Metachrosis 03-19-2010 08:24 PM

I didnt learn how to play with snakes "After" I got a computer . . . .
You do it the REDTAILBOAKINGSNAKE.COM WAY and I will continue to do it the way I was suggested to way.

What worked pre 1995 still works in 2010 :thumbsup:

Metachrosis 03-19-2010 08:33 PM

Lest you could do is be a man about it all,twisting thread content
to suit your comprehension pretty common in "your crowd"

Dont drag Bell into your childish asshatsandbox :NoNo:

Twizted Paths 03-19-2010 08:54 PM

:?party:

YAY! Debate :thumbsup:

This may be my first time trying to breed, but I've been keeping boas for aboutish 13 years, balls & natives longer. I've kept both males and females. Both sexes have cycled themselves for breeding ~gone off fed, produced sperm, ovulated against my will.

Despite me jacking up ambient temps, keeping bright lights on, never turning down their hot spot & despite informing them that I am the Human & they will do as I bid.

I don't believe in cooling. I personally don't think it's safe or necessary for boas based on my own personal observation & research. Then again I don't keep my boas in a designated room or building with completely static temps either, they also all get hauled out of their ages to roam around (supervised) & when possible taken outside.

My breeding didn't fail from me refusing to cool, it failed because MiCara wasn't co operating & I refused to risk Fitz there by missing the window.

She ovulated and he was defiantly producing sperm (:censored: tried to breed my arm!) with out either of them being cooled.

...And ya'all can't both defend me from each other :rofl:

Metachrosis 03-19-2010 09:46 PM

Well shit Nicky,dont guess she needed "defended" now did she ?
Anyway ...... thats whats cool about forums like Fauna
Fauna will always have its diversity and folks not real concerned whether you like their opinions or not.

I believe Bell(like myself) is "somebody" without snakes,nope our ego's are self made :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

polasian 03-20-2010 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twizted Paths (Post 896326)
YAY! Debate

I wish it were a debate, but he hasn't said anything about cooling, other than it being a joke. :shrug01:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Metachrosis (Post 896306)
I didnt learn how to play with snakes "After" I got a computer . . . .
You do it the REDTAILBOAKINGSNAKE.COM WAY and I will continue to do it the way I was suggested to way.

What worked pre 1995 still works in 2010

Yup...with the wealth of resources at my fingertips, I decided to take advantage of them. Owning a computer is not something I'll apologize for :rofl:. Hey man, whatever works for you...and apparently that's "do it the way I was suggested to way." :shrug01:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Metachrosis (Post 896313)
Lest you could do is be a man about it all,twisting thread content
to suit your comprehension pretty common in "your crowd"

Dont drag Bell into your childish asshatsandbox

Twisting thread content by asking you to elaborate upon a condescending comment? The content in your post was lacking (to say the least)...not much to twist. Just like you calling me childish, following by asshatsandbox (its a rare talent for one to be hypocritical with just two neighboring words :thumbsup:).

"My crowd?" LOL...you seem very fond of grouping together individuals who don't agree with you...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metachrosis (Post 895710)
Near impossible to reprogram the jaded reptile forum groupie
once their hard drive is etched
.

:rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metachrosis (Post 894208)
:rofl: then 6-8 months later you find the breeder has sold near 100 of the same thing and done banked another profitable year.Some folks are slow to catch on to shell games in the reptile biz.

Your holier than thou attitude is very apparent. Is that why you regurgitate those sentiments every chance you get?...because the "crowd" isn't worth your time? Or is it just a cop out because you cant substantiate your initial thoughts? You really have no clue what you're talking about, do you? :confused:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Metachrosis (Post 896374)
Well shit Nicky,dont guess she needed "defended" now did she ?
Anyway ...... thats whats cool about forums like Fauna
Fauna will always have its diversity and folks not real concerned whether you like their opinions or not.

I believe Bell(like myself) is "somebody" without snakes,nope our ego's are self made :rofl::

Mr. T...Bell can handle her own...she is the LAST person who would need defending, this I know :D. I simply wanted to be educated by you, the wise one (you know, since I do all my herp studies on forums :rolleyes:). I gave you a reason why cooling is relevant, and all you gave me was a bunch of bad grammar. Oh no...that's right, your reason for not cooling is because its was suggested to you. Soooooo grandpappy told you? That's it? That's your secret? Well, thanks for sharing...I'll be sure to pass it on to my kid. :rofl:

Bell, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread (and for dragging another thread into this one)...I promise not to respond again, unless it has something to do with the topic. :o

Twizted Paths 03-20-2010 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polasian (Post 896647)

Bell, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread (and for dragging another thread into this one)...I promise not to respond again, unless it has something to do with the topic. :o


May I remind you that you are now even more guilty than him of straying off topic & by making a huge post about his behavior that you have behaved in a very rude & hypocritical manner.

I have stated some of my reasons behind not cooling & instead of answering a single bloody one of them you chose to instead engage in a personal pissing match & drug a totally unrelated post into it as well.

You guys want to get in a pissing contest each other? I don't care, but do not use me or my threads as the pissing pole.

And his comment about cooling was addressed to me in my thread because he knows I view in it the same manner he does ~ detrimental to the health & well being of the boa & totally unnecessary.

Metachrosis 03-20-2010 07:20 AM

I dropped him in my ignore bucket so there will be no further dealings with . . . . . .
Quote:

Originally Posted by Twizted Paths (Post 896683)
May I remind you that you are now even more guilty than him of straying off topic & by making a huge post about his behavior that you have behaved in a very rude & hypocritical manner.

I have stated some of my reasons behind not cooling & instead of answering a single bloody one of them you chose to instead engage in a personal pissing match & drug a totally unrelated post into it as well.

You guys want to get in a pissing contest each other? I don't care, but do not use me or my threads as the pissing pole.

And his comment about cooling was addressed to me in my thread because he knows I view in it the same manner he does ~ detrimental to the health & well being of the boa & totally unnecessary.


crotalusadamanteus 03-20-2010 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polasian (Post 896296)
You do understand that cooling periods are implemented to stimulate the natural breeding responses of these animals, right? To encouraging captive snakes to breed, its helpful (more like necessary) to mimic the climate of their place of origin.

I like you Nick, but that is an absolute falsehood. :yesnod: There are very well known and successful breeders out there that do not cool, and I'll go a step further and say that I know of one that keeps his flex watt running wide open all year round, and produces viable offspring every year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by polasian (Post 896296)
Sure, some will have successful results without any cooling period...however those are the exception...not the rule.


:NoNo: Come on man, you're smarter then that. HEALTH is the number one contributor to a successful litter. Well, that and viable sperm. LOL Lots of other stimulants out there though. Light cycles, pheromones, feed schedules, temps, and letting them just be snakes have all proved to work. There is no set rule involved with Boa breeding, just guidelines. I only know of a few people who "have" to cool to get good results.


The human mind, a lot like a parachute, works much better when open. :thumbsup:



Bell, you go for what you know. Even 5 million dollar a year ball players strike out occasionally. Your time will come. :yesnod:

gsrept 03-20-2010 08:59 AM

i always cool my boas 8 to 10 degrees in fall. when i introduce males to females in end of november the males always sit on top of females for about two weeks or so coiled in s shape and twitch then after the two or so weeks you will see copulation followd by ovulation then shed 10 to 16 days later this has always worked for me. but i also know breeders that do not cool and still get succesful pairings it is all in how you learned and what you feel comfortable in doing. good luck, hope for healthy neonates.

Twizted Paths 03-20-2010 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metachrosis (Post 896710)
I dropped him in my ignore bucket so there will be no further dealings with . . . . . .

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus (Post 896732)
There are very well known and successful breeders out there that do not cool, and I'll go a step further and say that I know of one that keeps his flex watt running wide open all year round, and produces viable offspring every year.

There are not so well known ones who do it too. Like the guy that was old when I was a kid, he breeds every year & if you talk about cooling or power feeding he'll kick ya out of his store & refuse to sell to you :rofl:

Took me months to convince him to sell me my first boa & I think I only got her because one of the employees was silly enough to let me hold her & I wasn't putting her back :rolleyes:



Quote:

HEALTH is the number one contributor to a successful litter. Well, that and viable sperm. LOL Lots of other stimulants out there though. Light cycles, pheromones, feed schedules, temps, and letting them just be snakes have all proved to work. There is no set rule involved with Boa breeding, just guidelines. I only know of a few people who "have" to cool to get good results.

The human mind, a lot like a parachute, works much better when open. :thumbsup:
:iagree: :iagree:



Quote:

Bell, you go for what you know. Even 5 million dollar a year ball players strike out occasionally. Your time will come. :yesnod:
Thanks Rick, I figure it just gives her another year & that can't do anything but good for her :yesnod:

I'll have two maybe three girls going this year so my odds will be better. Of course with my luck they'll all take & I won't get to see the outside world again except for rat & paper towel runs :eek:

crotalusadamanteus 03-20-2010 02:50 PM

LOL I had two litters in '08. One of 35 live, and one with 21 live. I tell you what, when you work full time for a living, those measly 56 Boa neonates can really kick your butt good. I did nothing but whine like a little bitch that year. HA HA Ha

One litter at a time for me from now on. :yesnod: Unless it's the ones known for smaller litters, then I might go two. LOL

Twizted Paths 03-20-2010 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus (Post 896916)
LOL I had two litters in '08. One of 35 live, and one with 21 live. I tell you what, when you work full time for a living, those measly 56 Boa neonates can really kick your butt good. I did nothing but whine like a little bitch that year. HA HA Ha

One litter at a time for me from now on. :yesnod: Unless it's the ones known for smaller litters, then I might go two. LOL

Yea, have to factor in their care on top of the guys I already have, getting the mommas back up to optimal, vet bills if something goes wrong, plus work, plus my human kid & then dealing with buyers & tire kickers...

:shootfoot

All valid reasons I've waited so long to start doing this.

Utta 03-20-2010 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twizted Paths (Post 896930)
Yea, have to factor in their care on top of the guys I already have, getting the mommas back up to optimal, vet bills if something goes wrong, plus work, plus my human kid & then dealing with buyers & tire kickers...

:shootfoot

All valid reasons I've waited so long to start doing this.

not to mention hold backs that you'll want :shootfoot then realize you don't have room for all of the 10 hold backs you wanna keep, the be extremely saddened when you have to let even MORE go :(

Twizted Paths 03-20-2010 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utta (Post 897019)
not to mention hold backs that you'll want :shootfoot then realize you don't have room for all of the 10 hold backs you wanna keep, the be extremely saddened when you have to let even MORE go :(

I can always make room, even if I have to start gorilla gluing cages to the ceiling :yesnod:

It's the amount of feeders I need that gets me, I hate rats & guinea pigs.

mxracer4life 03-22-2010 09:01 AM

I don't believe in cooling. I believe that boas that do breed when "cooled" or "cycled" do it in spite of the cooling, not because of it.

Twizted Paths 03-22-2010 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxracer4life (Post 898469)
I don't believe in cooling. I believe that boas that do breed when "cooled" or "cycled" do it in spite of the cooling, not because of it.

Exactly :iagree:


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