ExoticPetsSW
 

I was a "One Time Customer " of Rose's at ExoticPetsSW

I received a male and a female Leopard Gecko on 06/14/07 from Rose which were advertised by her as Bell Blazing Blizzards

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...aleBellBB3.png

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...aleBellBB1.png

I am still trying to verify that any such morph exists after someone pointed out to me that only one had been produced so far and it sadly passed before reproducing

I also wanted to contact the Bel's to inquire as to exactly what their thoughts might be on the problem with this female-genetic/incubation/mbd etc. as Rose assured me that these two geckos were received by her directly from them and that they had been produced by them

Rose also told me that nether she nor her employees had noticed anything wrong with the female geckos leg and that she packed and shipped the geckos herself

I never did receive an answer to my e-mail to Mark and Kim Bell

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...53&page=1&pp=5


Be that as it may- the male and the female that were shipped to me with no mention of any problems or deformity concerning the female

The day of shipping (6-13-07) the temperature was around 90 degrees(I unfortunately do not have the exact temp available) during the day and they were shipped despite my initial inquiries to hold off on shipping in such warm weather

I was told by Rose that they would be fine and that they would have a cold pack included in their box-there was none
Rose told me in a later e-mail that she did not think that it was necessary at the time that she shipped them

Here are the pics of the two Leos

Upon opening the shipping box-the first thing that I noticed was that one of the geckos-i believe that it was the female -was on her back in her deli-cup but she was OK after I took her out and let her roam around an aquarium

The second thing that I noticed was her deformed front leg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s3-goodone.png

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...lBBBabies4.png

most recent pics

As you can see -the female has a problem with completely removing the shed on that leg
I removed the dead skin after taking the pics

Female

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1.../BBfemale8.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ale6inhand.jpg

Male

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...es/BBmale3.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...bies/male4.jpg

Both geckos are doing well in their separate tanks but the female does now hobble about with a pronounced limp
They are both beautiful animals and I plan on keeping them

There were emails sent back and forth between myself and Rose after i received the geckos and discovered the females problem

I did ask Rose about getting another female from her that was produced by the Bells-another Blazing Bell female- and what she thought that she would offer a second female to me as a fair price
She misunderstood me and thought that I was asking for a second gecko for free

She then demanded that I return both geckos to her -shipping them out again in 90 degree weather

She told me that she had already scheduled a pick up at my house by FedEx

I did not wish to ship them out again so soon after being shipped to me and I also did not wish to try and ship them without a cold pack in such extremely hot temperatures
I am not an experienced shipper and I do not have cold packs available to me
I also was concerned about the females fate as this is a business that i had bought from-not a private breeder-meaning that i wondered if the female would be put down because she was not salable
I mean no disrespect to anyone that runs a reptile business by the above statement--it was just a thought that ran through my mind

I refused to return them and told her to cancel the pick-up by FedEx

I do have the e-mails that were sent back and forth after I received the geckos




If I ever did have any thoughts on breeding the two geckos before I received them -which were sold as a pair- with the females condition makes
me not even consider this possible now

Here are the emails-

From: LadyGecko [mailto: beardiekeeper10@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 5:38 AM
To: exoticpets1@earthlink.net
Subject: 2 bell blazing blizzard babies



Hello- you will be shipping my 2 Bell BB babies today and I wanted to let you know that the temps here are 90 plus

If you want to delay shipping until the weather is cooler-this is fine with me

I place the safety and well being of these animals first and foremost and I can wait until cooler temps if need be



If you feel that using a cold pack as was discussing on the phone when i ordered-for overnight shipping will guarantee their safe arrival-they go ahead and ship them for delivery Thursday(tomorrow) morning



Please let me know and send tracking number if they go out today



thanks for your time



Sandra Peraziana


On 6/13/07, Exotic Pets Wholesale < exoticpets1@earthlink.net> wrote:

Sandra,

Thanks for keeping me posted.



www.fedex.com Tracking number 792503744300



The temps here are around 80. FedEx will pick up late in the afternoon. The shipment is guaranteed by 10:30 am. No signature is required so FedEx can leave the box. We found this works better than FedEx driving around all day with live animals in their HOT trucks.



Please let me know when they arrive.

Rose



Exotic Pets Wholesale

P.O. Box 12676

Fort Pierce, FL 34979

(772)429-1125 Fax (772)460-9408

www.exoticpetswholesale.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LadyGecko [mailto: beardiekeeper10@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 12:38 PM
To: exoticpets1@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: 2 bell blazing blizzard babies



Hi Rose-Sorry that it took me so long but here are the pics that I took right after i got them out of the deli-cups



I suffer from chronic pain and it is really bad today for some reason so I am going to take a pain pill and lay down for a while



Both geckos are in their new tubs and moving around just fine

I am at a loss as to if this is an existing condition or something caused by the shipping



The female does not favor that leg and she walks on it with np but as you can see there is a definite problem with it and i will not be breeding her in the future



Take care

Sandy



On 6/14/07, Exotic Pets Wholesale <exoticpets1@earthlink.net> wrote:

Sandy,

I have not heard back from the breeder, so I am at a loss for words. I did not notice the problem while the gecko was in our care. Like I said, I packed and shipped your order myself. I will be forwarding these pictures to the breeder along with your contact info. Maybe they can shed some light on this problem. As you can tell from how fat and healthy their tails are, they eat just fine.



I will be sending you out a refund for $15. I can't do anymore as I am now taking a loss for them.



Thank you for your understanding.

Rose



Exotic Pets Wholesale

P.O. Box 12676

Fort Pierce, FL 34979

(772)429-1125 Fax (772)460-9408

www.exoticpetswholesale.com



The more that i thought abut the two geckos being sold as a pair -the more upset that i became at the whole situation
The money was never the issue with me
I just wanted a female that was breed-able should i decide to do so in the future and I did not appreciate being told that I WAS GOING TO BE SHIPPING THE GECKOS BACK TO HER FOR A REFUND


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LadyGecko [mailto:beardiekeeper10@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 4:39 AM
To: exoticpets1@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: 2 bell blazing blizzard babies



Hello Rose

I am also at a loss for words

I am amazed that I have received an animal in this condition form a reputable pet business



I have not responded until now as I have not been feeling well as I mentioned in my last email and when I have to take my pain meds it is very hard for me to think straight

I was in extreme pain this morning when these geckos arrived and I had been taking my pain meds and I honestly really did not feel up to trying to straighten this situation out at that time BUT I did want to let you know what had happened since you obviously were unaware of this females problem



I ordered a pair of Bell Blazing Blizzards with the idea of eventually using both the male and female in future breeding projects and now I am left with half of a pair to do this with

I do not breed my geckos in large numbers as many people do even though I have around 40 high end morphs of Leos but I was looking forward to working with the Bell BB line down the road and I did want both a 100% sound and healthy male and female to work with



I do not wish to return the female as I do not wish to subject her to further shipping stress nor do I wish her to be euthanized because she is not suitable for sale



Can you understand my situation with sitting here with half of a breeding pair and having to look for another female but at the same time feeling morally obligated to take care of this "special girl"??



I am sorry that you are "taking a loss" on these geckos but I am still sitting here with half a pair when I purchased two animals that were advertised as a pair and to me that means that at the time of sale that both animals should be physically suitable for future breeding

This female will never be able to be bred



I'm sorry but I also have to ask you how in the world could you send out a gecko with such an obvious problem ?



Do you not look over the animals that you send out to your customers before they are shipped to make sure that they are 100% sound and healthy ?



I will be taking this female into my herp vet as I strongly suspect that her problem is a result of MBD and that she is going to need extra calcium supplementation

I also want him to look her over to see if she has any other problems that need to be addressed/treated in conjunction with the deformed leg

This of course is going to cost me added money but that is part of the obligation that I feel toward my pets

And these animals are beloved pets to me -first and foremost



I am not a very happy nor satisfied customer at this time and I am afraid that the sum of $15 to replace half this pair is not a satisfactory solution to me



Do you have at this time a female that you can send me that is healthy and without any physical defects and what do you believe would be the right and fair thing to do in this situation regarding her price?



I would like to suggest that you contact the Bells again with this problem if you have an agreement that entails them sending you sound and healthy animals for a replacement for her to send to me



I can only hope that their reputation of being a high quality breeder of these lovely animals is still withstanding and that they will do the right thing



I will be waiting on your response



Sincerely



Sandra Peraziana





On 6/15/07, Exotic Pets Wholesale <exoticpets1@earthlink.net> wrote:

I did try to call you this morning but did not get an answer.



So that you understand ~ FedEx will be picking up the PAIR of geckos on Monday to be shipped back to me in the SAME manner in which they were shipped to you, so we receive them alive and healthy.



Once returned to us I will issue you a FULL REFUND of $115. We are a reputable business and I do care about my animals and customers! When you move the amount of animals we do, there a few that will slip through the cracks so to speak. I have already said that I did not notice the defect. I also told you that I packed and shipped that box myself. I have notified the breeder twice and forwarded the pictures to them as well. We both would like the animals back.



Yesterday you did not want a refund and stated you got a good deal. I offered the $15 refund for the reason I explained in the last email. I would rather take a total loss than have an upset customer. However, I will not be taken advantage of either. So the animals will need to be sent back.



Also, I never said the animal would be euthanized. As for the shipping stress, they are in transit for less than 18 hours total time. Healthy animals can sustain this. Both of these geckos are healthy with the exception of the one's foot.



It does not appear to MBD from what I have read and seen on the internet. Since I am not a vet and don't know for sure, I would like to see it and have it seen by both the breeder and our vet. I have a lot of pets that are disabled. You'd be surprised how many people send, drop off, or give them away. I love every one of them! These two will make a great addition to my own reptile collection.



Rose



Exotic Pets Wholesale

P.O. Box 12676

Fort Pierce, FL 3 4979

(772)429-1125 Fax (772)460-9408

www.exoticpetswholesale.com


From: LadyGecko [mailto:beardiekeeper10@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 12:13 PM
To: exoticpets1@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: 2 bell blazing blizzard babies



Rose-

I do not understand what you mean about me wanting to take advantage of you

I asked you for a fair price on another female and explained that I was not happy with the fact that this female has a problem with her leg



I will not be shipping them back and I was not looking to get something for nothing

Keep your money

I am done with this deal and I totally disagree with you about there being no stress on these animals in shipping especially in 90 degree plus weather

One of the geckos was om it's back in the deli container when I opened it

I suppose that is normal?



The geckos will have a great home with me

As I said I am not a breeder and I just originally wanted a pair to have the option to breed them eventually

I will find another female somewhere else at a later date



I will just chalk this deal up as a "live and learn" experience


Sandy


Sandy,

I have already contacted FedEx for them to be returned. I need them back to get credit from the breeder. I did not say that shipping does not cause stress. I said healthy animals such as these have limited affects from shipping. They do fine once in their new homes.



It’s not about the money. I am more than willing to pay for the return shipping and refund you the $115. If it was about the money I would stick to my Terms & Conditions, which states that we are not responsible for the purchase or return fees.



I am surprised at how you did a complete 360 from when we spoke yesterday. Yesterday you did not want to breed them and did not want your money back nor did you want to send them back. You repeated how “beautiful” they were and how you were so happy to finally own Bell Blazings. Then today I came in to an email totally different. Either you want them or you want your money back, but not both. I do not have any other Blazings to send, as I told you when you ordered them.



Possibly the fact that it may have flipped somehow in the container during transit cause the injury, I don’t know. No one at my facility noticed the foot like that. There are 4 people besides myself that care for our animals.



I have been in business for well over 16 years….not by ripping people off but because we do actually care! I have tried to make the situation right.



~Rose



Exotic Pets Wholesale

P.O. Box 12676

Fort Pierce, FL 34979

(772)429-1125 Fax (772)460-9408

www.exoticpetswholesale.com

Please excuse me-The title of the thread should have read
ExoticPetsWS

Sandy Peraziana

OK... First of all, those are not Bell Blazing Blizzards. Mark Bell is a close friend and business associate of mine, and I know for a fact that he has never produced a single Bell Blazing. He does produce lots and lots of Tremper Blazing Blizzards, which is what you received. If you purchased those as Bell Blazings, you were misled by the seller because they are not. Perhaps she got confused and incorrectly labeled them because of the fact that they are "Bell Line" animals, I do not know.

Secondly, the female's leg is certainly not normal, although my guess would be that the problem was caused by something other than MBD, only because her other three legs look perfectly fine, and normally when MBD occurs, it occurs in more than one limb. Also, the male does not seem to exhibit any signs of MBD, which one might expect since both animals came from the same breeder, and then the same "dealer"/petshop/jobber.

Thirdly, I checked the seller's terms on her website HERE
and this is what is stated there:

Exotic Pets Wholesale stands behind every product we sell. If for any reason you are unhappy with a product you have purchased from our website, you can return it in its original packaging and condition within 10 days of purchase for exchange or full refund, less any shipping and handling charges.

If a problem should arise. You will need to return the item or items in question before a refund is issued, less any shipping and handling fees. This applies to live animals as well. We may require photographs or the return of any live animals in question.
Should you run into a problem... please let us know within one hour of receiving your shipment. A credit will be given on your next invoice or a replacement will be sent with your next order. If we do not hear from you within one hour we will assume that everything is great and you have had no problems.

Sounds like if you want any compensation, you are going to have to return the gecko. I think it's rather crappy, for lack of a better word, for you to have to do this. Were I the seller, I would most likely send you another female Blazing, for free, and let you keep the one with the hurt foot. However, not everyone does business the same way. Try to look at the bright side, you probably saved this gecko's life by keeping it. Also, female Tremper Blazings are not that hard to find, and you should be able to acquire a mate for your male fairly easily.

One more thought...
 

and possibly a loophole for you. If the seller sold those geckos as Bell Blazing Blizzards aka Bell Albino Blizzards, then she misrepresented the animals. Therefore she has a moral obligation to refund the full purchase price of the geckos, and she really should cover all the shipping charges as well. However, you would still have to send back the geckos to her. :rolleyes:

I just checked Reptile Auctions and I see that Rose is still being a little bit misleading in her ad HERE

These are not Bell line Blazing Blizzards, they are Tremper line Blazing Blizzards that were produced by Mark Bell. :NoNo:

Please call the Bell's ask them how much money I have spent buying their animals this year and what they have sent to me.

I was going to refund her money once the animals were sent back to me. Which I was going to pay for. Not a big deal. She did not want to send them back to me and wanted to keep them. I can not get a refund from Kim without the animals.

As stated months ago, I would be happy, refund her money once the animals are returned.

I understand, that is why I stated that in order to get any money back she would have to return the geckos.

However, you could step up to the plate and offer her another female Blazing for half price. That would most likely make your customer happy and you would not be loosing much money (I know the wholesale price of these geckos).

Here is my guarantee that relates to live animals:

Live Reptile Policy:

Orders sent door to door service are sent via priority service only, otherwise we can not guarantee live arrival.

Guarantee:
We guarantee our animals are healthy and alive when they arrive. We can not be responsible for carrier delays or mishandling. We do not guarantee any animals when traveling through areas where the temperatures are below 40 degrees or above 90 degrees. Heat and ice packs are available upon request. Because of the unique needs of amphibians, there is no guarantee at any time. There is never a guarantee on free items or any items being shipped by ground service. We can not be held liable for any illness or disease not visible or known while in our care. We can not guarantee our animals are free of parasites. There is no guarantee for any items being shipped by ground service. There is never a guarantee on free items. There is no guarantee on items marked (NG). Exotic Pets Wholesale is not responsible for shipping and handling fees for the purchase or return of any items.

All Customers:
If a problem should arise. You will need to return the item or items in question before a refund is issued, less any shipping and handling fees. This applies to live animals as well. We may require photographs or the return of any live animals in question.
Should you run into a problem... please let us know within one hour of receiving your shipment. A credit will be given on your next invoice or a replacement will be sent with your next order. If we do not hear from you within one hour we will assume that everything is great and you have had no problems.
No credits will be given after this time.

In addition to the above:
Exotic Pets Wholesale is not responsible for any fees you incur relating to or from the live animals purchased from us such as care, feeding, breeding, shipping or health, other than what has been stated above or other wise stated or agreed upon in writing. We are not responsible for the legality of the animals we sell or any fines, fees or licensing of or for any animal or animals purchased from us.

All turtles and tortoises under 4" are sold for educational, scientific or export purposes only.

Basically, notify us as to any problems that arise and check the legality of all animals you intend on purchasing before making the purchase.

The one posted was for products (dry goods).

Also, I did not have another 4" Blazing to send her and the Bells did not have them on their list either.

Yes, I could have done many things but with the complete 360' turn around from one hour/minute/day to the next, I thought it best to return the animals and refund the fee paid. I'm not sure if it was the pain meds or what but by stating your pleased and happy and then taking it all back assured me that to settle the situation it would be best to return and refund.

I'm wondering why it took so long to post your dealings. Seeing the other thread must have sparked your interest ~ "kick her while she's down". Nice move.

Again, BUYER BEWARE ~ I can't make my customers happy no matter what!