The bigger issue
 

Jeremy.,

Yes, I agree 100% that we are dealing with a bigger issue. Here it goes again. You psted Kevin's proposal to ship UPS. Could you post the e-mail with your reply as well? Secondly, which state are you in?

It seems that in this instance the saying It takes two to tango applies very well.

The bigger issue here is not if the snake eats rodents or not, or the time elapsed, or even the $800. The bigger issue here is that a person sent a venomous animal via UPS. What at least I would like to know is if you agreed to this. As we asked from Kevin, just a yes or no answer will suffice.

Thanks.

Re: king
 

How's this scenario for ya.

King cobras are remarkably well muscled for their size, and they've got a little more upstairs than most snakes. Just a little negligence on the part of a UPS handler, getting the box caught in something that could tear cardboard and cloth, and we have a deadly serious situation. I've gotten overnight packages from UPS in the past (one just last month actually) that were crunched up pretty badly on the corners.

If there had been a live animal in last month's package instead of my Halloween costume, I wouldn't have given great odds that the animal would still be in it. We've heard horror stories here on the BOI about lizard shippers losing lizards in the mail this way. So yeah, it can happen if you ship UPS.

How serious would the situation be? The package not being labelled correctly, it would take awhile to identify a brown cobra as a subadult king. A UPS employee could die. That's worst case. In a better case escape scenario, the cobra is eventually seen and/or captured but doesn't bite anybody. Or maybe it gets away without being sighted, but its dead body turns up as roadkill and makes the papers anyways.

Backlash of pubic opinion from an incident like this is very likely to lead to restrictive legislation against venomous snakes, against shipping reptiles in the mail, and against our rights to keep any reptiles at all.

Jeremy, if you were aware that this guy was planning to ship to you UPS, you've made yourself one of the bad guys too by putting us all at risk of these consequences.

Kevin's Bad News!
 

He tryed to get me to ship venomous Ups/Fedx twice over the last year plus. He's a scam. I'm sure their will be Bad Deals coming from him.
I'm watching....

Whoa! Hold the phone. I thought this was a venemoid king. You mean to tell me he shipped a HOT king thru UPS and you knowlingly accepted it!?

Bad enough shipping a venemoid illegally but one that is fully capable of delivering a fatal bite!

Both of you need to be investigated for the role each of you played in the shipment of this animal!

The idea that both of you would complete this kind of transaction this iresponsibly is completely mind boggling...Do you have any comprehension anywhere in your tiny little minds the amount of media overkill that would result if that snake had gotten loose?...As far as 90% of the world is concerned, snakes are evil and the King Cobra is just that , the King of all that is evil...You have no idea or just dont f$%#*&g care how badly you could have hurt the herp community and set it back in the publics perception...It goes just a little but beyond a king that has stressed and stopped eating...

...One smaller note...I don't know how "proficient" a hacker Mr Smith is, but just because he has made it a venomoid doesn't mean it cant kill someone...from the little i've learned about the practice if it is done wrong the snake is still capable of producing venom...

Way to go, guys, way to support the community :*(

FOR THE RECORD...
 

I never heard back from Kevin when I e-mailed him last night to help get him the Delta records to prove his claim. Because I do not have authorization, I will not post my findings, but I now have official confirmation that Kevin DID NOT send the King cobra by Delta airlines. A Delta staff member went back 9 months to verify that Kevin has NOT used Delta to ship the King Cobra. Surprised??? Nope, not me. A proven liar, is a liar! Why would we expect anything else from him?

Thanks Kevin! Keep up your work at elliminating our hobby. Expect a little something from me soon, and enjoy.

Naaah, he thinks I'm just a cranky old lady for being concerned about minor little details like that.


Kevin keeps saying that I'm just making up the fact that venomoid operations are not 100% reliable especially when performed by non veterinarians. He likes to ignore the evidence and the statements of well respected and well published reptile veterinarians who have verified re-fissuring after ductectomy and failed/partial adenectomies that have left the animals able to deliver significant envenomation. He doesn't care, and he'll keep right on selling people botched venomoids until somebody gets killed.

One of his unhappy customers came on here reporting that Kevin sold him a "venomoid" canebrake that was still quite capable of envenomating and killing prey. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...&threadid=8527

Most likely he will also go right on shipping venomous snakes illegally, again until somebody gets killed. Personally I think it would be a good idea to put this guy in jail before he can do any more damage to our community.

Re: Kevin's Bad News!
 

Keith, that is a bald faced lie, I have never dealt with except for one time, in which I prepaid for delta shipping. I ended up making you give my money back because you were being a jackass and giving me excuses about shipping. Other than that I have never dealt with you, so I don't know where you get off trying to come on here and make up stuff.
Ray, I did ship delta, so I don't know why you would make a statement like that without knowing all the facts. I will get a copy of the airbill, but I don't really care because basically this forum is bull<font color=red>[**censored**]</font>. A bunch of jackasses jumping on here talking <font color=red>[**censored**]</font> when they don't know the situation or the facts. Other than that you little people can drag this on for another 80 pages, I don't really care because it doesn't matter in the bigger picture. And lastly.....
For Jeremy, ONE QUESTION, IF YOU HAD NO PROBLEM WITH SHIPPING DELTA, WHY DID YOU COME ON HERE TO SLAM ME AND MAKE UP ALL OF THESE LIES??? WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST SHIP THE DAMN SNAKE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND GET IT OVER WITH? COULD IT BE BECAUSE YOU ARE LYING ABOUT THAT TOO???
Kevin Smith

Having watched this unfold I am waiting like the rest of the forum for proof that Kevin did ship a king via UPS. That proof would include pictures of the box. scans of the shipping labels, a picture of the snake in question, copies of all e mails between Kevin and Jeremy, and last but not least a copy of the signed shipping ticket which you can have UPS print off for you.

Calling names is not going to help either party one bit.
 

The problem is that most people here have been requesting the facts. A couple of days ago partial e-mails were provided (so far no-one denied they were not true). But when the rest of the e-mails were requested... "sudden silence at the end of the line". Oddly enough either party doesn't want now to provide facts. No airbill, no UPS tracking #, no e-mail exchange. Nada.