Beware of Jerry Kruse
 

Gerard (Jerry) Kruse

I purchased several hatchling zonata from him for $3100 and within a week they started showing some disturbing skin problems. I notified Jerry within a week and told him what was going on. He seemed very nonchalant about it and played it down saying it was most likely something I was doing wrong in my husbandry techniques. He did not offer to take them back, refund my money or replace the animals. He adopted a “let’s just wait and see” attitude which left me feeling insecure. I felt at this point he was hoping I would just drift off into obscurity and stop bothering him. In any event I didn’t think he was going to do anything. I imagined that after waiting a little longer he would wash his hands of the problem saying it was definitely something I did since I would have had them a while at that point. Their condition started getting worse and looked exactly like what Brian Hubbs, author of Mountain Kings, describes as Mountain King (zonata) disease on page 258 of his book. I sent Jerry a picture and an email describing their condition but didn’t hear back from him for several weeks. Again his attitude was the same. He insisted it was something I was doing and offered nothing but “let’s wait and see” again. A month passed and I tried to contact him again but he did not respond. I figured that was it and I was on my own. Unfamiliar with this type of skin problem I posted it on Kingsnake.coms Mountain King forum. I posted pictures too asking if anyone could tell me what this was and offer any help. I got several immediate responses saying it was classic zonata disease and to destroy the animals before it spreads. Jerry contacted me (finally) after seeing my post and complained to me for posting it. He accepted no responsibility for the situation and was in complete denial that these snakes had a problem. He blamed my husbandry techniques and said he didn’t feel responsible. He did at this point offer to take them and work with them but I decided not to because I felt at this point I would never see the snakes or my money again. I tried to communicate to him what I thought he was not doing for me and he became belligerent and aggressive. I told him not to contact me if he could not be civil but he continued. I finally had to tell him to stop contacting me but he continued sending rude email sending rude and unacceptable emails laced with obscene language.

I strongly recommend everyone to stay clear of this individual. There is a distinct possibility his animals carry the zonata disease. He won’t stand behind his animals, replace or refund them. He also has some personal issues. When I confronted him with everything he feigned anger like a child does when they are caught in the act. He has some definite problem accepting responsibility for anything. I’m no psychologist but I recognize someone who is unstable when I see them and this guy fits the bill! You have been warned and to be for warned is to be for armed!

Please post the emails

Any proof you have, emails, photos and/or text messages will definitely help your claims.

Also, have you notified Jerry Kruse of this thread?

I'm sure he is very aware of it. There is a long thread going on KS.com and so far all Mr. Kruse has done is hide behind the skirts of his friend the moderator.

Thank you Stu for posting this over here. He is indeed an unstable person. I'm sorry for what you have had to go through. I had the disease affect my colony way back in the early 90s. It wiped out every animal within a matter of months.

I don't know how that man sleeps after the way he has treated you. Your reputation is all you have. Apparently Mr Kruse's is only worth about $3100.

It goes without saying that no one should buy or receive any zonatas from Mr Kruse until the health status of his collection is ascertained. I personally will never do business with him ever again. He has shown for the whole community that he is not to be trusted.

I have many archived emails that speak to his character if they need to be posted here as further evidence.

So far there is very little evidence. Stuart, do you have emails to post?

photos of the sick zonata
 

Jerry was viewing the thread for quite a while, seems as though he has nothing to say.

some email exerpts
 

These are only a few exerpts from saved emails. I really don't want to spend more time on this. I also have a lot more on text messeges I might post if I can find the time and figure out how to do it. But I think this should be enough "evidence" for now.

"You're f&@king cornering me and shaking your finger at me like I'm your damn 10 year old son or something."

"All because I didn't spazz out to your liking and missed a damn text message."

"I never had problems with ANYONE until I had a falling out with _____."

"C'mon Stu, don't you think you're being really impulsive and a bit assinine at this point?"

"I'm not looking to argue despite my feeling angered"

"I was not in contact with you initially because I was out of the country and my cell service was down for a short time. You're making me sound like a f@#king bum Stu, and I resent that."

"I won't apologize for that because its not something I have done intentionally, nor anything else in this entire exchange between us. I have done the best I can, despite a very brief communication glitch, throughout and this onset of skin dryness is not my fault. I do not have this in my collection nor do I have "zonata disease" either."

"So please, keep YOUR future correspondence appropriate"

"You want to hold me accountable for MY actions, or your PERCEIVED lack of action on my part, but you go ahead and act impulsively based on an ASSUMPTION without credible evidence while trying to blast me "

"By the way, how are the snakes doing? Just throwing that in so you don't feel I'm being neglectful again. I'm starting to think its best if you send the snakes to me to work with so your hot streak doesn't create any foul play. Thoughts? :)"

"

RE:
 

Hi Stu I just sent you a PM

You display excerpts with all of your replies absent, effectively making YOU the judge of this situation (do you not trust your readers to read all the emails and come to their own conclusions?)
After making a serious allegation about a diseased snake, you don't want to spend more time on this?

Sorry, but you put a complaint tailored to fit you on a plate and are offering it around as a canapé? No thanks, bud. Either take the time to make your case believable, or accept that your tailored posts will not gain much credence with some of us.

It takes longer to pick an excerpt out of an email than to just copy+paste the entire thing. :)

This is my first post on the BOI and I thought I was supposed to censor it. I also thought it was a forum to warn others and not putting myself up for judgement. I've been dealing with this situation since before Christmas and this was my last resort. I will try to do better!

Fair enough, Stuart. Post your emails but censor out the cusses and such.
Please understand that such allegation can have serious consequences for the other party and that is why it is best to include as much info and emails as possible.
I see that the other party has in fact been lurking below; hopefully he will response, if not people may draw their own conclusions as to why not.

whats the best way to post a picture so it shows up better?

That is horrible, I'm so sorry you may lose those snakes :(. Has a vet been consulted? If it IS this disease and the snakes are to be destroyed how on earth does this guy sleep @ night? To purchase $3100 dollars worth of creatures only to have them destroyed is heartbreaking and wallet shattering. It can't be legal, and if it is I hope that EVERY potential buyer sees this first. Please post it all so the whole community can back away from that seller.

Post them to Photobucket and then copy them here.

Or you can attach them from your computer using the options below.

Sorry to hear this.

Part of your issue is the original size of the photos I believe. This can happen when taking pictures with a cell phone. If you have a regular digital camera, you can increase the "print" size of the photo, so that it appears bigger on the screen. I think some smart phones also have this option, but I am not sure about that.

As for the emails, I would copy and paste the whole thing at once, then censor out the swear words.

As for text messages, you can forward them to your email address & receive them as an email you can copy and paste. :D

Hope that helps & I am sorry about your snakes, that is horrible.

This is a copy of text messeges once I finally got hold of him after several attempts to contact him.

JK: How many have this skin issue Stu?
Me: 2.2
JK: All four?!? At first it was just 2 of them.....!
Me: Yes. At first it was the male then on 26 jan I sent another text. I didn't get a responce from you.
JK: Oh shit, I'm sorry Stu. I never got that one. What the hell man, I'm just beside myself. This other fella in Maryland purchased almost 20 zonata from me and all is well. Every year, without fail, every sale is fine. I bust my butt to get snakes eating and never a problem, except 2 yrs ago when some guy cooled the snakes with fluctuating temps and the snake got respiratory issues and died.
Me: Well I tried to keep you informed but it was during the holidays and I found out afterward you were out of town. The first male developed but to a lesser degree and I spoke to you on he phone about it. He second male showed signs and worse and we exchanged a txt or two but the 2 females have it bad.
JK: Otherwise, every year is fine and never anything like this. Please, do ship them and I will work with them. If they turn out fine is due time, would you still want them?
Me: At this point I would be afraid to work with them and would rather just get a refund....if you don't mind.
JK: Please don't ship anything. I'm thinking this through really hard. This makes for a very tough position for me. Give me a day.
Me: I totally understand if you need some time to come up with the money. But I hope you understand I need to remove these snakes from my collection as soon as possible. I know you will do the right thing. Let me know. Thanks. Stu
JK: Stu, I'm on the fence right now. I sent you snakes that were in PERFECT condition and I'd worked with for quite a while to get going. If the environment was off perhaps something could have set off a skin problem. They continue to eat and thrive, but have a shedding issue. I need to think this through Stu. I'm upset too about the whole thing. I've sent zonata to John Lassiter and others who partake in the forums, and not once ever a problem. If you feel the need to blast me all over the place that I'm a jerk, then that's up to you. But I'm feeling kinda cornered at this point and I believe things like this work themselves out with time and patience. If they arrived like that, that's one thing. But something went wrong and it wasn't on my end. At the same time I feel awful as well.
Me: I have several hundred colubrids in my collection none of which have this problem. I haven't had them long enough to feel it is my responsibility. I notified you immediately once they started showing symptoms. I am basically a customer who is not satisfied with the product and want to know what you plan to do about it. I know if I sent someone snakes that wasn't happy I would take them back because I would want them to be happy and it's the right thing to do.
JK: I also have a customer whose specimens are in perfect condition as well as three remaining babies from the same clutch that are perfectly fine.
Me: I don't doubt what you are saying but it doesnt change the fact that i have snakes here that I haven't had long enough to feel responsible for. I need to know if you are going to refund my money or not so I know what to do next. If I do not hear from you in 24 hours I will assume you are not.
JK: Stu, why are you not willing to work with these snakes?!? They are dehydrated from what it sounds like, not zonata disease. You had them for two entire weeks and they were doing great. That's enough time for them to respond to perhaps a lack of something they required. Jesus, why are you strong-arming me? Most breeders offer a 48 hour guarantee only! I had them for MONTHS and they were finem , I sold their littermates to a fella in Maryland and they are fine. I have three leftovers from the same clutch and THEY are fine. Something goes awry on your end and I'm the bad guy now? Jesus! You may feel non-responsible after having them for 2 weeks + before something happenedn but I don't share your view on that Stu. If you want to send me them and I can get them back in order, that's fine. Even Rick Staub is telling you that keeping them with not enough humidity dries them out. But you want to blame me? I've sold zonata to Joecop and to John Lassiter and no problems. But you're making me out to be the bad guy in this! Send them to me and let me work with them, but I'm telling you this is NOT my fault Stu! I'd also offer some free snakes in the future, like Cosalas, to try to mend things a little but for crissakes I'm being blamed for something that did not happen in my care, and each and every snake in my collection (which is about 30) is absolutely pristine in condition. Humidity is always around 60% with moist hides as well, ambient temps never over room temperature and only, ONLY, adult females get some belly heat during ovulation and egg development. Maybe these hatchlings WERE too dry in your care.......is that impossible? Two weeks is long enough for ANYTHING to go wrong, but I have to eat it all after working with them for months and they being in perfect status in my care and upon arrival to you? Let's discuss this realistically before we get crazy. So please, send them to me to work with and let's see where this goes. I will give them the utmost care and attention (again) and keep you posted at every step as I did before I sent them to you. Okay?
Me: Yes I turn my phone off after 10 pm. I will call you at 5:30 your time. Ok Jerry, just tried to call but got your voice mail and it was full and wouldn't take any messages.
JK: I'm going to call ya in 'bout 30 minutesm just stuck in traffic and I don't have a hands-free device..... Not avoiding you, I'd never do that, Are they are on basic thawed unscented pinks?
Me: One eats f/t if you wiggle it with forceps and the other waffles between f/t and scented. Takes scented without hesitation. I will mark them accordingly.
JK: Whatever YOU are scenting with, send a piece along just in case. I want to be consistent.
Me: Ok
JK: Next 2 days in NYC high of 50F.
Me: That's good

emails
 

This was not as easy as some made it out to seem! Many of these emails were replied to making them seem out of sequence. I had to put them in order sio they made some sense. I hope I censored everything appropriately.

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 5:48 PM, <mbshop@aol.com> wrote:
Hi Stu, Just checking in with how everything is going with the Sierra babies. I might also add that I have been asked to return a couple of small deposits for the 2012 year because some people now think I have zonata disease. Yes, it just goes to show you how many people produced b&w zonata last year and by posting one pic of a baby b&w it has created quite the problem for me in very short order. I would also bet handsomely that either Paul and/or Mitch has contacted you personally, chomping at the bit & fueling all of this as is their nature to do so. Most people at this point would walk away from it all and turn their back, but not to worry -- I won't -- despite the fact that I sent perfect babies that I had for months until I shipped them, have not ONE complaint about me after selling many, many zonata to various people across the county and in Canada over the last decade, & have offered to work with you as best I can while most breeders give nothing more than a 48hr guarantee. At this point I'm left to wonder a little if you really wanted "just" advice Stu & weren't being just a tad vindictive in thinking I was going to screw you. Being a former soldier, you might understand that having jumped the gun and going public like this might be the equivalent of hitting the DefCon 5 button before all the facts were straight. Unstoppable nuclear warheads at that point, inevitable. People thinking I have zonata disease after years of a perfect record, inevitable. Nevertheless, I hope the babies are progressing and, again for the record, I'm open to receiving them at any time as I'd offered earlier this week. I am positive those babies will turn out to be just fine with a bit more humidity, as Dr. Rick Staub suggested on the mountain kingsnake sub-forum. As for my ability to retain zonata customers in the future, I seriously doubt it.
Jerry Kruse

From: Stuart Tennyson <stuart.tennyson@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:19:09 -0600
To: <mbshop@aol.com>
Subject: Re: change of plans & an update
Jerry,
I can understand your need to vent but I would like to take this opportunity to clear a few things up.
First of all I went on the forum for 2 reasons. The primary reason was to try to get some help with this situation because I wasn’t getting the help I needed from you. The other reason was to put some pressure on you to respond to me. I felt you were avoiding me hoping I might go away. At this point I was not “vindictive”. I was merely trying to get the help I felt I deserved.
I am truly sorry if this incident has cost you some business. But had you responded differently from the beginning maybe it wouldn’t have come to this. When I first contacted you (within the first 2 weeks after receiving the snakes) if you would have offered some real help other than take the “let’s wait and see” approach then stop responding to my communications we could have avoided this. How do you think I've felt about all this? I spend $3100 on some snakes that look like thay are going to die. I'ts more than I've ever spent on snakes and I feel like the person I bought them from doesn't care.
I know you really want to affix all the blame to me and maybe this condition WAS triggered by something on my end. However, the fact that they started showing symptoms within the first week and I notified you immediately (not to mention I paid you $3100) leads me to think you should have stepped up to the plate at least a little and assumed SOME responsibility. At the very least I would have expected you to stay in closer contact with me.
You can play the victim and tell everyone how I “wronged” you over this deal or you can “man” up and learn from it. I would hope this experience teaches you a valuable lesson. When you’re a” business man” especially in the herp biz customer satisfaction is important and reputation is everything. You can go away with sour grapes in your mouth or you can try to treat people better in the future. The choice is yours.
As far you using the DEFense CONdition readiness codes as an analogy with me……well….you’re slightly off target. DEFCON 5 is the lowest level and used during peacetime. DEFCON 1 is the highest state of alert. If you are really trying to make a connection using these codes then I would say that when I received the snakes we were at DEFCON 5. When I started feeling like you were avoiding me and were not interested in helping me I went to DEFCON 4 when I sent the last message to you and got no response. Going on the forum was like DEFCON 3. You haven’t seen DEFCON 2 or 1 yet.
Please keep all future correspondence with me civil. And BTW Mitch and Paul have not contacted me regarding this issue.
Sincerely,
Stu Tennyson

Gerard KruseFeb 13
Gerard Kruse mbshop@aol.com via srs.bis6.us.blackberry.com
Are you threatening me Stu? All I did was tell you what occurred because you went overboard real fast. You're teaching me a lesson now? And you're telling me that I have something in store?!? What did I do to deserve that??? I was not in contact with you initially because I was out of the country and my cell service was down for a short time. You're making me sound like a f@#king bum Stu, and I resent that. So tell me, what's DefCon 1? I don't take to threats lightly at ALL. And I really don't think I deserve this tone. if you may recall, I DID recently text you after thinking I hadn't heard from you in a while. I didn't get that last text because my cell service was down temporarily. I won't apologize for that because its not something I have done intentionally, nor anything else in this entire exchange between us. I have done the best I can, despite a very brief communication glitch, throughout and this onset of skin dryness is not my fault. I do not have this in my collection nor do I have "zonata disease" either.
As for me not being "concerned as you would like me to be", like I said......I've seen something exactly the same in a southern pinesnake I had about 15 years ago and all was well after numerous sheds and a process of rehydration. Moreover, your snakes were feeding not having missed a beat and were sent in perfect condition after months of being in perfect condition both in health and in husbandry.
I know you may like to THINK I was avoiding you or trying to screw you, but I wasn't. But I gotta tell ya, this strong-arming me along with your veiled threats makes me not want to deal with this at all anymore.
I'm standing by you Stu, but one more response like the one you just sent will be taken as harassment. So please, keep YOUR future correspondence appropriate, as I have not spoken strongly to you or threatened you at all.
You seem to have a bit of an aggressive streak there, and by my telling you how I felt along with the repercussions of your impulsivity has obviously triggered you.....and just why I don't seem to understand. You "felt" I was abandoning you or leaving you to hold the bag........why not outright have ASKED me if I was? Or CALL me to ask if I was......but you assumed Stu. You want to hold me accountable for MY actions, or your PERCEIVED lack of action on my part, but you go ahead and act impulsively based on an ASSUMPTION without credible evidence while trying to blast me and strong-arm me now? Wow. Jeeeezuz, I'm just shaking my head in disbelief right now.
So let's talk about DefCon1.........what am I being threatened with? I apologize if I'm writing this driven by emotion, but that was a flat out threat that any attorney could construe as such, and very much unnecessarily so.
By the way, how are the snakes doing? Just throwing that in so you don't feel I'm being neglectful again. I'm starting to think its best if you send the snakes to me to work with so your hot streak doesn't create any foul play. Thoughts? :)
Jerry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerryGerard KruseFeb 13

From: Stuart Tennyson <stuart.tennyson@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:20:57 -0600
To: <mbshop@aol.com>Subject: Re: change of plans & an update
Maybe I was wrong. Maybe I’m the one who needs to learn a lesson here. I should have listened to the advice of a friend and never had dealings with you in the first place. The fact that you are in complete denial and refuse to take any responsibility tells me there is something wrong with you. I am telling you now to stop contacting me. Do not call me, text me, email me or attempt to contact me in any way.
Stuart Tennyson

The following emails were sent AFTER I told him to stop contacting me.

Gerard KruseFeb 13
Stu,
I have read your email over about 4 times at this point.....I think this is the part that kills me the most:
"You can play the victim and tell everyone how I “wronged” you over this deal or you can “man” up and learn from it. I would hope this experience teaches you a valuable lesson. When you’re a” business man” especially in the herp biz customer satisfaction is important and reputation is everything. You can go away with sour grapes in your mouth or you can try to treat people better in the future. The choice is yours." How disgustingly insulting. Wespoke via text on 12/20 and agreed to how things go. I then went away on a family vacation the day after Christmas and returned on January 4th............ON THE 16 OF JANUARY I sent you a text, since I hadn't heard from you, stating as follows:
"Hey buddy, Happy New Year! How are the critters, particularly that little male?" ........and our conversation ensued. I then lost cell phone service for a brief period until our conversation resumed on 2/6 after I saw you went onto the kingsnake.com forum. You may like to think I did not keep in-touch with you, but from my angle I did. Maybe not getting as hysterical as you'd like me to, but I did reach out. I might also add thay you MAY have had my email address as well as definitely having my telephone #........why not have used another form of communication (even Facebook or the kingsnake.com forum to find me and send me a direct email....!) to contact me if the text wasn't going through and you were so upset? I'm not looking to argue despite my feeling angered over your prior harsh email, but I'm just exploring what other options you had and pointing out that I did not IGNORE you. Because if I was I would never have text you on January 4th IN THE FIRST PLACE!
JerrySent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Gerard Kruse mbshop@aol.com via srs.bis6.us.blackberry.com
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Gerard Kruse <mbshop@aol.com> wrote:
One last thing, can you please re-send me that text I did not receive?.........just copy and paste it and send it to me. If you don't have it or can't find it, no problem......I can contact my cell phone company to locate it if I must. Last we conversed by text you were concerned but willing to wait things out after their next shed.
That text was sometime between 1/16/12 and 2/6/12 from what I'm understanding. Thanks in advance.
Jerry Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Gerard Kruse mbshop@aol.com via srs.bis6.us.blackberry.com

Gerard KruseFeb 15 (12 days ago)
Gerard Kruse mbshop@aol.com via srs.bis6.us.blackberry.com
Hi Stu,
I was able to track down that missing text thru my wireless company -- you know, the one that I did not receive due to my service being down for a short time and that I'd asked you for recently. Well, here is what I got:
"Hi Jerry,
Thought you might like an update. Both females have shed for the second time in a month! Their scales still look rough and they both needed help shedding but as you can see they still have an appetite. the male is in the blue for the 3rd time in five weeks! He's eaten 8 times and seems to be on the mend. One female has eaten 8 times and the other 9 times. I still have the first female and the 2 year old in the cold room. The only thing I can think is maybe the small ones got a touch of frost bite in shipment. The first pair you sent don't seem to show any signs of a skin problem and neither does the larger one which adds to my theory. Whatever it is I've never seen anything quite like it and the fact that they are all feeding well and shedding I think tells me they are on the mend."
This is the text that I initially did not get and according to my Verizon account was sent on 1/26/12. I then sent YOU a text on 2/6/12 after seeing you post on the mountain kingsnake forum never having known you sent that text on 1/26.
So you mean to tell me that after only ELEVEN DAYS you ASSUMED that I was ditching you?!?!? Especially after you send a text telling me they're looking better and you're feeling they are on the mend?!? Wow again Stu, and this new-found information shows there is not, nor was, anything wrong with me.
Just for the record, how are they doing?
Jerry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

OMG. Thank you Stu for piecing all this together. I'm not a judge, but if a small claims case like this came before me with all this evidence, I would side with you and award you your $3100 bucks back and then proceed to give a stern lecture to Mr Kruse why the customer is always the king. It is clear you got screwed on this deal. The good news is that like Jerry said, he is losing business because of his intransigence. The zonata community is very small compared to the overall herp community. If you piss off one customer, you might as well announce in a bullhorn to everyone that this is how your dealings with me will go if you try to buy any animals from me.

wow that sux! hopefully this gets resolved. how many zonata did you get for 3100.00? and are all of them having this problem? seems from the emails jerry offered you to send them back? am i missing something???

,,,,,,,,thomas davis

I got 6 total. Yes you are missing something. I was afraid of this when I was trying to copy all the txt and emails. Its hard to follow the sequence of events. He only offered to take them back and "work" with them. He did not offer a refund. He only made this offer late in the string of events and after I believe he was feeling pressured. At that point I didn't feel comfortable sending the animals back. If the problem was stress induced then I didn't want to stress them out any more. I also was losing trust in him and was afraid if I sent them back I wouldn't see my snakes or money again.

wow thats ALOT of money for 6 zonata!
to me taking them back would mean a refund.
wheres jerry???
ive had runins w/jerry on the forums before and he can be.... well anyway i dont think he would take the snakes back and NOT refund your money, but yeah id be hesitant over that much money also.
wheres jerry???
seems like this could be a simple fix.
wheres jerry???

,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
,,,,,,,,,thomas davis

Definitely Bad Guy! Buyer Beware!
 

If I read it properly, I think Jerry wanted Stu to send them back to work with them but NEVER promised to refund any money. I too would be wary if some seller said this to me. As zonata disease is such a lethal/contagious disease and has devastated many zonata collections, I have no idea why the breeder who has a "pristine" collection would want the babies back to work with.

On a side note, I'm not at all suprised this poor transaction has occurred. I met Jerry last year at one of the White Plains shows. Oddly enough he had no animals at his table but rather a computer with nice pictures of zonatas. We talked a bit and he was asking me to put a deposit down for eggs that haven't hatched yet. I'm always a bit wary when someone says that and thank God I didn't as I later heard that he has attempted to buy other people's zonatas to resell, claiming animals that are his that really wasn't, etc... Whether the above statement were true or not, I personally don't know but when no one is saying anything positive about a breeder, it's an ominous sign of buyer beware for me. Gosh, Jerry is questioning Stu's husbandry? Stu has 40 years of husbandry/breeding experience in colubrids and is one of the founding fathers of the greyband "fanatics." I just can't imagine if he'd do this to Stu, what he would do to other customers that are less well known. I feel for you Stu.

Oh... I found where Jerry is. He's on his web site blog, wallowing in tears, and blaming the world for picking on him. It's great when you have your own site, post your version of the story, and no one else can express an opinion. Maybe he can give himself some psychotherapy.

I personally have received animals from Jerry and they were nothing but top-notch. And certainly nothing like this went down. How are the animals doing now? Are they feeding? How is their skin looking? From what I've heard, one of the symptoms of zonata disease is refusal to feed and subsequent wasting. Just curious is all, these look like the same pics from the KS thread, if they are doing better/worse, maybe new pics should be posted? I've read the KS thread and that's the reason I rarely post on there anymore. Mud-slinging, personal attacks, etc... we are all suppose to be kindred spirits in this hobby, helping one another and not tearing each other apart. E-mails from your communication and recent pics of the animals would be helpful to your case/complaint.

My bad, I missed the e-mail and text threads above. But, again, how are the animals doing now? Are they getting better/worse? Of course, that is not the point, I understand that, but if they are improving, or even thriving, then your money was not wasted. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong or out of line here.

Mike - you had dealings with Jerry and nothing like this happened? I thought you told me you felt slighted in a trade with him...that he never sent you the animals he promised after you sent him his animals first? Or did he finally live up to his side of the deal?

Dave Niles

Too much risk involved.
 

You're question of whether it's money not wasted in case they are doing better is a good one, but I think it is $3100 straight down the drain. On KS and even here it sounds like your not sure it's zonata disease, but it is. I'll tell you the same thing I wrote on the other forum...no one knows what causes this disorder. Is it a syndrome? Is it a pathogen? We don't know, but until we do know it is absolutely the best to err on the side of caution and treat it as though it's pathogen-based. Also, it sucks that your colony was wiped out by it. But not all z's displaying classic ZD symptoms perish quickly. I had a friend back in 1999 that had 1.2 adult agalma with it. Only one died, after a half-year struggle, and the other two lived (but the never recovered neurologically, and would always shed every two to three weeks, tie themselves into nots, and crawl on their sides, back arched, continually. It's not a death sentence, but it might as well be. Even if a snake ever recovered, since we don't understand the origin of the disorder, any responsible breeder should never let the snake in question out of his or her collection, as it might still carry a pathogen. I hope this answers your questions and also helps clear the air why Stu is the one that got worked here.

Seeing as how this is a thread where we are allowed to alert the public of the perils associated with Jerry Kruse...I'll do just that. NEVER, for any reason do business with this man. Honestly every person I've known that has has always gotten ripped off or verbally threatened of potential physical assault. I first met Jerry when he sent multiple emails literally begging for free zonata (something he now harps on others as pathetic if they obtain free zonata). I do still have all those emails if anyone would like to see them. Over time I sent Jerry and his family SEVEN FREE ZONATA (I just want to drive this home because Jerry always calls those who accept free zonata pretty horrible names). After receiving those seven snakes, Jerry tried to obtain a CA non-commercial license so I could gift him THIRTY MORE FREE ZONATA. He was denied the permit because law enforcement had no way to regulate his stock. Since his permit was denied I have spoken to two different people, one who has said Jerry told him he was offered the permit but declined to take it, and another person who Jerry told he actually had the permit. Both of these stories are typical Jerry fabrications with no basis in reality. I know he never received the permit because the law enforcement officer who denied his permit told me he had done so. Back to the thirty free snakes Jerry was still excited at trying to obtain from me. It became apparent that Jerry saw me as a source for bolstering his collection at no cost, and when he crossed a line I told him not to cross with me I decided to dissolve our friendship. In Jerry's own words he asked me not to broadcast free zonata because it really makes it hard to sell all of you his snakes. I have that email, and my response to him on my laptop, and I'll post it tomorrow. People, he basically kissed my ass for seven free snakes, was more than happy to take thirty more free snakes, but his selfishness was so great that he wanted no one else to enjoy a free snake. Those are not the qualities of a good person nor someone you can trust. Just after this whole ordeal Jerry them completely broke my trust by claiming an immaculate conception from a snake I caught and gave him, one that he bred to another of a different locale, but sold the offspring as pure. It was at this point that I felt so used that i washed my hands of him. I have since been verbally threatened, texted out of the blue by him with rude and swear-filled messages, and am still apparently eny number one. I'm so much an enemy and such the manipulative mastermind (apparently I have brainwashed over a half dozen strong-willed people into thoughtless cronies, all with the sole mission to destroy Jerry) that he just finished a brand new rant about me on his website blog. If you want to read the writings of an insecure, juvenile, and possibly dangerous person, go visit his blog. To make matters worse he's a licensed psychologist and he actively threatens physical violence against those that disagree with him. Btw, I will happily offer up all emails that will show you who and what you're dealing with when you let Jerry into your life.

Other things Jerry has done to others that I know to be fact, and hopefully the abused parties will share their tragic encounters with you, are:

1. Going mental on a breeder who didn't sell Jerry the holdback hatchling Jerry wanted.
2. Actively selling a wild-caught temporalis illegally collected from the Pine Barrens.
3. Taking breeders from a Zonata breeding loan, producing babies and not telling the owner of the snakes, and selling those babies and keeping all the money. When confronted about it he promised 'next year' he'd split the clutch, all the while sitting on holdbacks that he never offered to the owner of the snakes to make things right for being a their! Jerry claims everyone is lying about his behavior and that the person whom he ripped of is in fact a good friend, but I've spoken with him and I have his emails to show he dislikes Jerry immensely and feels as though he was stolen from.
4. Went into another person's house, took photos of all his zonata, and played them off as his. He told everyone he was going to have all these different locales of zonata for sale, but the hatchlings he was talking about weren't even his.
5. Screwed his Brother-from-another-mother out of hatchlings from a Purblan milk snake breeding loan (take home message: don't enter into a breeding loan with Jerry).
6. Knowingly sold mutt Baja Mtn kings as pure Martir stock when he found out that Dan Voss had sold him mutts and not pure animals. He was out the money so he dishonestly and under false advertisement did to someone else exactly what had been done to him. The classic part of this is Jerry just responded to a two-year thread where someone asked why he posted a negative BOI thread about Dan Voss. Jerry admitted that it was because two years ago he learned his pure stock was nothing of the sort. Since that time Jerry has unloaded his mutt stock onto others as pure.

Basically, don't interact with the man, because all that do tend to come out of it having been stolen from or lied to. Stu is one of many that have now been Krused, don't make the same mistake all of us have.

Mitch

Mitchell, Why give him 7 free snakes? And then 30 free? To sell in a deal? Or breed for you? Just because you guys WERE friends? I got a lil lost there sorry. Sounded just like he was a guy who begged for free snakes and you gave in so I was just curious :)

Stu, did you have the animal tested? While I do trust advice from the forums and they are a great way to gain knowledge and Info on just about anything if the right people are viewing but with something so possibly dangerous to a collection I would still get a Vet's diagnosis to put to bed the "it's just a humidity problem" claim. With these snakes the humidity can seriously effect shedding and it's the easiest claim a simple problem to add doubt. Hearing you have 40 years of keeping leads most of us I'm sure, to believe the issue is with the breeder NOT you, but confirmation of the disease would very well put an end to that. I hope this works out for you and I hope they don't have to be destroyed

For the benefit of the many readers of this thread who like myself are unfamiliar with zonata disease, would someone more familiar please map it out here?
And then tie the description in with the snakes the OP is describing which seems to be a shed problem.
If a breeder is selling an allegedly sick snake, it might be worthwhile to all subsequent readers if the symptoms were described in a little more detail.
Stu thank you for posting the emails.

BUYER BEWARE
 

I THINK JERRY NOT COMING ON TO THIS SITE TO GIVE HIS VERSION OF THIS TRANSACTION SPEAKS VOLUMES! BUT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT TO VENTURE TO HIS PRIVATE SITE, THERE'S PLENTY HE HAS TO SAY THERE SINCE IT'S ALL HIS OPINIONS AND NO ONE CAN CHALLENGE HIM.

As for Lucille's question on zonata disease, there is not much information out there. When those two words come up, it puts shivers down a zonata keeper's spine as it has decimated countless zonata collections. There are no definitive causative factors that were ever identified/published BUT since it is contagious, it is thought of as infectious. Mitch Mulks who is obtaining his doctorate in zonatas is probably the best person to explain it. With that being said, Jerry has used zonata disease as a scare tactic when he was trying to get me to leave a deposit for his unhatched zonatas. Zonata disease or not, I think Stu (who no one can argue, is an accomplished colubrid breeder/keeper) had issues with these animals within two weeks and wanted to return them, but Jerry refused to take them back and instead wanted him to "work with them." Stu even told Jerry that if he didn't have the money, he can wait for the refund.

The BOI is where people come to check reputations, to see if there are positive or negative reports about those who they may be planning to do a transaction with.
It should not be necessary to travel to other venues to see evidence, especially as some places do not have the requirement that real names be used as this one does. And, as Bobby said above, some places do not allow any conflicting or additional comment.
Inexplicably Jerry sent the following pm to me (I am not a zonata person, I do not know why he chose me), I suppose to attempt to take the heat off requests that he respond to the allegations here. I would think a responsible breeder would want to address these kinds of allegations as soon as possible and offer his own perspective:


JerryKruse
Registered User



Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 6
Name : Jerry Kruse

Trader Rating: (0)
taking a moment
Hi Lucille,

please do not add any more pressure for me to reply just yet. I want to see exactly what Mr. Tennyson has to say before I blast him. I can assure you that you and many others are hearing a half-truth. I have also developed a negative following stemming from 2 years ago that does not make this any easier for me. That in and of itself is a long story that is stemmed in sheer stupidity and misunderstanding. Please give me time to reply -- I do have two young children to tend to and I may not even reply until tomorrow. Yes I have been "lurking" below -- wouldn't you be? My response will be written VERY carefully including a timeline of everything that transpired. Until then, please do unerstand and respect my silence...thank you much.

I suppose the next excuse will be his car breaking down, then the next one will be a family member being in the hospital and then, if I have it right, he'll lose his collection in a fire OR it will be stolen.

It must be taking him a lot of time to get through the scammers handbook.

Christina, Mitch did NOT give Jerry 30 free zonata. You didn't read it correctly.

Ya caught that after sry, :o but why the 7? Seeing that 6 cost the OP $3100 it just didn't make sense to me. Guess its not the OP's comment so I should let it be. I just read that and was dumbfounded on it a minute lol.