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-   -   Officers seize 3 king cobras, 300 other reptiles from single home (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664726)

bcr229 08-12-2018 10:40 AM

Officers seize 3 king cobras, 300 other reptiles from single home
Only 300 reptiles? Amateur. :D

I don't know why the owner didn't just get a place in PA instead of NY since he was on the border.


Officers seize 3 king cobras, 300 other reptiles from single home

By: Associated Press

Posted: 2:37 PM, Aug 10, 2018
ALLEGANY, NY - State wildlife officers have seized three king cobras among the more than 300 reptiles kept in a New York home.

The Department of Environmental Conservation says officers obtained a warrant Thursday morning to search a home in the town of Allegany, on the Pennsylvania border 60 miles southeast of Buffalo.

Officers say inside they found three king cobras, six venomous Gila monsters and seven species of turtles kept in enclosures throughout the home, located near St. Bonaventure University.

DEC officials say several zoos and wildlife conservation groups have offered to care for the reptiles.

It’s illegal in New York state to own venomous snakes.

Officials say the man living at the house faces charges.

Native to Asia, king cobras are one of the deadliest snakes in the world and can grow up to 18 feet.

bcr229 08-12-2018 12:47 PM

Second Article with More Info

DEC: Allegany man facing charges had 300 reptiles in his home

By RICK MILLER, Olean Times Herald
Aug 10, 2018 Updated Aug 10, 2018

An Allegany man that state environmental officials said had 300 reptiles in his house is facing numerous charges, including possession of wildlife without a permit.

No charges had been filed against William K. Engelder, of 26 E. Union St., Allegany, by late Friday.

State Department of Environmental Conservation officers executed a search warrant at Engelder’s home early Thursday.

Among the 300 reptiles seized by DEC officers at the home were three king cobras and other venomous snakes, as well as six Gila monsters. Engelder was also said to have a large number of turtles.

A DEC spokesman said that contrary to at least one local social media post on Thursday, there were no alligators among the reptiles seized.

Engelder, 70, a former biology teacher, served as a substitute teacher in biology and chemistry at Allegany-Limestone Central School District in 2013, school officials said. Allegany-Limestone Superintendent Tony Giannicchi noted on Friday, however, that his research showed Engelder had worked as a substitute in the school district for only one month. Giannicchi also noted he was uncertain which school districts Engelder had worked at in the past.

A spokeswoman with the state Department of Education also had no information on Engelder’s previous employment as an educator, but was able to provide information that he holds certification in biology, chemistry and general sciences for grades seven through 12.

No one answered the telephone at the East Union Street home on Friday afternoon. A neighbor later told an Olean Times Herald reporter at the scene that he believed the family was not at home.

The neighbor, who lives nearby but declined to provide his name, said he and his family "never had a problem" with Engelder or his wife, Cindy.

"They were always nice and polite," the neighbor said of the couple. "You know, hey, the guy obviously liked his animals.

"I know it’s probably illegal to have cobras, or whatever, but I think it would be kind of neat to take one home, to be honest with you," he said with a laugh.

In addition, the neighbor said there was never any evidence outside of the home of the large number of reptiles within the structure.

Meanwhile, the DEC and other biologists spent most of Thursday at the scene, cataloguing and transferring reptiles from enclosures inside the house to containers for transport.

Ben Delamater, of the DEC Press Office in Albany, said all animals were seized without incident and are being held at the Buffalo Zoo while their conditions are evaluated.

According to Delamater, officers seized "300 reptiles, including spotted turtles, snapping turtles, Blanding’s turtles, box turtles, wood turtles, bog turtles and painted turtles, all believed to be unlawfully held."

A number of as-yet unidentified turtle eggs were also seized.

A number of zoos and wildlife conservation groups have volunteered their services should long term care or placement of the reptiles be required.

King cobras, Gila monsters and several species of turtle collected Thursday are among the wild animals the general public is prohibited from possessing without a permit.

Section 11-0512 of New York State Conservation Law states it is prohibited for any person to: "knowingly possess, harbor, sell, barter, transfer, exchange or import any wild animal for use as a pet in New York state."

The list of exemptions to the provision includes: licensed zoos, licensed exhibitors, licensed research facilities, veterinarians, animal shelters and other animal welfare organizations in temporary possession of wild animals, state universities or colleges working with wild animals, wildlife rehabilitators, someone transporting a wild animal for treatment and a wildlife sanctuary.

The section of the law states those found with such animals can expect to pay a $500 fine to the state per illegal animal for the first offense, and double that amount for repeated offenses.

Unpermitted possession of endangered or threatened animals is also prohibited under state law. Bog turtles are listed as endangered in New York, Blanding’s turtles are listed as threatened, while spotted turtles and wood turtles are species of special concern. Though the season is open for taking snapping turtles, they may not be possessed live.

Friday afternoon, Cattaraugus County District Attorney Lori Rieman had "not spoken with the DEC and is not going to comment yet," a spokesman said.

Rieman could announce charges against Engelder as early as next week, a DEC spokesman said. A final list of charges is pending with the District Attorney’s Office.

DEC officials thanked the Cattaraugus and Chautauqua County sheriff’s offices, the Cattaraugus County District Attorney’s Office, the Allegany Police Department, Allegany EMS, Mercy Flight, the Buffalo Zoo and Cornell University for their assistance.

DEC encourages people to confidentially report environmental violators 24 hours a day through their website www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/67751.html, or by calling the Environmental Conservation Police Officer hotline at 844-DEC-ECOs (844-332-3267).

(Kate Day Sager assisted with this report. Contact reporter Rick Miller at rmiller@oleantimesherald.com. Follow him on Twitter, @RMillerOTH.)

JimM 08-12-2018 01:48 PM

He couldn't have venoumus or protected NY species ....

So why was everything else confiscated besides those animals ?

No 'wild animal' can be had as a pet in NY state .... so why is the White Plains show allowed to be held ??

Ccurran1992 08-14-2018 04:14 PM

I love how the zoos and sanctuaries are all open handed for free animals that someone paid lots for well becides the native species . Guess it pays to be government butt sniffers haha NOT thats why your collections should stay private telling/showing no one regulations only on us citizens for $$$ and us not standing up..

DLenaRuth999s 08-26-2018 09:16 PM


“I don't know why the owner didn't just get a place in PA instead of NY since he was on the border.”

You’re quite correct. It’s what I’m doing. I have a place in NY and PA, and a car that gets 41mpg highway to travel back and forth until I retire (soon)!

bcr229 08-26-2018 10:37 PM

Welcome to freedom!

bcr229 07-05-2019 07:41 AM


Man faces multiple charges after reptiles seized from home

July 3, 2019

ALLEGANY, N.Y. (AP) — A 71-year-old western New York man faces multiple charges including illegal sale of wildlife after state environmental officials seized hundreds of turtles and three king cobras from his home.

The Department of Environmental Conservation says William Engelder of Allegany in Cattaraugus County was charged with reckless endangerment, illegal possession of venomous reptiles and numerous other offenses.

The reptiles seized last August included 17 endangered bog turtles and 184 spotted turtles, a species of special concern. Dozens of turtle eggs were also seized. It is illegal to possess reptiles that are native to New York state.

It could not be determined if Engelder has a lawyer to comment.

DLenaRuth999s 07-05-2019 08:35 AM

I didn’t see the usual catchword “hoarder.” I’m assuming these animals were well cared for. Endangered, watch listed... sounds like he was successfully increasing their numbers.
Maybe he should be allowed to continue and also be paid for his services.

bcr229 07-05-2019 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by DLenaRuth999s (Post 2150025)
I didn’t see the usual catchword “hoarder.” I’m assuming these animals were well cared for. Endangered, watch listed... sounds like he was successfully increasing their numbers.
Maybe he should be allowed to continue and also be paid for his services.

Maybe not.



Engelder has been charged by DEC conservation officers with first-degree reckless endangerment, a class D felony; illegal sale of wildlife, a class E felony; possessing a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle, a misdemeanor; nine counts of overdriving, torturing, and injuring animals, an Agriculture and Markets Law class A misdemeanor; failure to provide proper sustenance, an Agriculture and Markets Law class A misdemeanor; 26 counts of illegally possessing and transporting venomous reptiles, a violation; possessing an endangered species without a permit, a violation; and 283 counts of illegally possessing a wild animal as a pet, a violation.
The search and seizure of the reptiles stemmed from a call to the state TIP line about a man harboring illegal animals.

DLenaRuth999s 07-05-2019 11:27 AM


sschind 07-05-2019 01:09 PM

I'll start this by saying the numbers involved don't really concern me. For the most part I am of the mindset that I don't care how many animals a person has if he is keeping them in humane and proper conditions and he is not infringing on anyone else's rights (I really don't like that word) such as putting them in danger or bad smells etc.

However, in this case, as much as some people may want to defend this guy and make the government out to be the bad guy on this nothing good can come from it for any of us. Defending him makes the rest of us look almost as bad as his own actions did. Not only did this guy have a lot of animals, which most people won't understand, he had illegal animals. Not just illegal in the form of potentially dangerous (the cobras) which, while not for me, I am not opposed to if proper precautions are taken, but illegal in the form of endangered.

The majority of the non reptile keeping public does not understand why we do this anyway (keep reptiles in general not THIS as in what this guy did) so when they see things like this it only strengthens their opinions against us. I highly doubt any non reptile enthusiast, and this includes the lawmakers, will look at this and come away with a better understanding of our hobby or a deeper appreciation for our passion. To them its just another crazy wacko keeping endangered and potentially dangerous animals that we have no business keeping in the first place even if they were not endangered or dangerous.

The law about not being able to keep wild animals is one of those purposefully vague laws that will not come into play for the vast majority of people who do keep wild animals. Its in place for guys like this. Guys who they think are going beyond the limits of realistic pet keeping. They know people have wild animals and they probably know specifically a lot of them who do but they don't care about the ones who are doing it realistically and properly. I used to know a few people who were in charge of enforcing the laws about size limits on snakes in a town near me. They told me they knew of people who had snakes larger than were allowed but until and unless there was a problem they were not going to do anything about it. One of the reasons for these laws is to try to at least limit what some people attempt to keep. Without such laws it can be very difficult to do anything about those who are not entirely on the up and up. Unfortunately its also a catch all law that allows them to be real pricks if they want to. To me that is the scary part of it. Today my 12 foot Burm is no problem tomorrow someone gets a wild hair up their *&^ and they come knocking on my door.

I have no sympathy for the person in this case. I have no idea who he is and I had never heard of him before. With that many animals though I am reasonably certain that he knew he was breaking several laws. I don't care if you agree with the laws or not, if you know you are breaking them you need to be prepared to face the consequences. I'm guessing if the cobras and endangered animals had not been part of the equation it would not have been a big deal even though he was still breaking the "keeping wild animals" law. With that many animals, especially the spotted turtles, this guy should not be considered a conservationist. I don't know all the details of what he planned on doing with all of them or the ones that would hatch but I doubt anything other than selling them for profit was a motive.

DLenaRuth999s 07-05-2019 01:40 PM

Very well stated.

melanoleuca 03-19-2020 11:09 AM

" Though the season is open for taking snapping turtles, they may not be possessed live."

Kill as many snapping turtles as you want, but we'll fine you $500 for every live one we catch you with.

Yes, that's the law in New York.

Pennsylvania is the same with Timber rattlesnakes. Permits issued to kill but fines and prison for keeping them alive as pets.

DLenaRuth999s 03-19-2020 11:12 AM

That is seriously wrong.

JColt 03-24-2020 06:48 PM

Looking this up I see about a week later they added charges of having an alligator. Anyone know outcome of original story?

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