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09-10-2005, 01:49 PM

Gregg,

Once again you did an excellent job of posting your opinion which is consistent with my thoughts and feelings as well.

A few questions come to mind and by no means am I trying to dispute what you said, but more to provide food for thought.

To sum up, you say you are opposed to altering animals to suit a keeper's needs. Is your cat spayed/neutered? Are you opposed to such procedures? The real reason most keepers neuter male cats is not so they will not reproduce, at least not indoor cats, but rather so they will not pick up the annoying habit of spraying the house. Similarly, most keepers of indoor cats do not want their kitties going into heat and crying out all night looking for a male. Now I know there are some potential health benefits to such procedures, but for that argument to hold, we should all get "neutered" after having any children that we want to have so as to avoid prostate enlargement and cancer, and reduce our risk of coronary disease. Any takers?

Similarly, maybe we should have out wives and girlfriends "spayed" to prevent ovarian and uterine cancer, and to reduce the risks of breast cancer. Given a choice between my salivary glands and my gonads, I know which I'd choose to keep.

All that said, I am opposed to creating venomoids for most of the same reasons that you are. The procedures are generally performed by unqualified individuals and have terrible results. And keeping a venomoid is like keeping a gun that is unloaded...or so you think it is. I don't *play* with unloaded guns, and I don't *play* with venomous animals.

My other questions concern Helodermatidae. These are the only venomous animals that I keep, and they would never be voided, but the best science that I have read is that their venom is only used for defensive purposes. So the biological need is not there in captivity. They are easy to handle safely with proper precautions and so if someone wanted to risk putting a $1000 animal through unnecessary surgery, crazy as it might be, it likely would have no adverse biological effect. I would never expose an animal to that risk. Nor would I want my animals disfigured just for that purpose.

My main objections to removing the venom system in any reptile is the same as yours. If you are not qualified to handle a "hot" animal then there are other choices. If zoos kept a few voids around for teaching purposes (that is to teach safe handling of venomous animals to prospective owners) I could see that as a legitimate use of such animals. Of course that assumes that they acquired the animals as rescues and did not create them solely for that purpose. In order to get a CWP in Virginia one has to take a handgun safety course. We were "taught" with unloaded weapons until we went into the firing range. My pistol, however, is always loaded except when I have just been shooting (at the range) or when I am cleaning it.

09-10-2005, 01:49 PM	#38
Jim O	Gregg, Once again you did an excellent job of posting your opinion which is consistent with my thoughts and feelings as well. A few questions come to mind and by no means am I trying to dispute what you said, but more to provide food for thought. To sum up, you say you are opposed to altering animals to suit a keeper's needs. Is your cat spayed/neutered? Are you opposed to such procedures? The real reason most keepers neuter male cats is not so they will not reproduce, at least not indoor cats, but rather so they will not pick up the annoying habit of spraying the house. Similarly, most keepers of indoor cats do not want their kitties going into heat and crying out all night looking for a male. Now I know there are some potential health benefits to such procedures, but for that argument to hold, we should all get "neutered" after having any children that we want to have so as to avoid prostate enlargement and cancer, and reduce our risk of coronary disease. Any takers? Similarly, maybe we should have out wives and girlfriends "spayed" to prevent ovarian and uterine cancer, and to reduce the risks of breast cancer. Given a choice between my salivary glands and my gonads, I know which I'd choose to keep. All that said, I am opposed to creating venomoids for most of the same reasons that you are. The procedures are generally performed by unqualified individuals and have terrible results. And keeping a venomoid is like keeping a gun that is unloaded...or so you think it is. I don't play with unloaded guns, and I don't play with venomous animals. My other questions concern Helodermatidae. These are the only venomous animals that I keep, and they would never be voided, but the best science that I have read is that their venom is only used for defensive purposes. So the biological need is not there in captivity. They are easy to handle safely with proper precautions and so if someone wanted to risk putting a $1000 animal through unnecessary surgery, crazy as it might be, it likely would have no adverse biological effect. I would never expose an animal to that risk. Nor would I want my animals disfigured just for that purpose. My main objections to removing the venom system in any reptile is the same as yours. If you are not qualified to handle a "hot" animal then there are other choices. If zoos kept a few voids around for teaching purposes (that is to teach safe handling of venomous animals to prospective owners) I could see that as a legitimate use of such animals. Of course that assumes that they acquired the animals as rescues and did not create them solely for that purpose. In order to get a CWP in Virginia one has to take a handgun safety course. We were "taught" with unloaded weapons until we went into the firing range. My pistol, however, is always loaded except when I have just been shooting (at the range) or when I am cleaning it.