Double "D" Reptiles

Didn't see this thread until I got home from work tonight, so trying to catch up quickly and see what there is to learn. It seems that one key piece of information is missing which would enable everyone to concentrate their efforts to determine whether other neonate BPs were puchased (albino or not) from this particular dealer which may have died unexpectedly with or without a necropsy to determine the cause of death.

Who is the dealer?

I realize that this little bit of information may be quite unsavory for the masses, but as dealers, buyers and sellers (not to mention possible key witnesses to one side or the other) we are at a complete loss in our ability to ascertain any further information without this name, business or person.

I cringed when I read the topic line and dreaded what I would find when I began reading this thread. However, I will admit that I've learned from it in ways I never thought about. Gout was not one of those things I'd given thought to before now (outside of humans) and is yet another topic for me to reasearch further in order to increase my knowledge and be able to share. Having purchased imported CH balls in the past, I can now better appreciate the need to fully acclimate them and have them feeding regularly and watching more closely for them to be dringing on their own. While I knew this was important (can't think of a single one we lost or that was reported to us as a non-survivor later, though we did have a couple that were real pains and we wouldn't sell due to them being problems until almost 8 months later) I did not know exactly how important it was. To think that some pet shops actually plan on a 50% loss is outrageous and, to me, unacceptable as it seems to link directly to the care the animals receive while in the care of the shop.

As to the purchase/problem/refund issue, I fear that it could be one of those "cold days" we often hear mentioned before this issue is resolved amicably between all parties involved. As long as the seller is offering the best quality animal possible (granted we all seem to have slightly varied definitions and time-frames) with no known problems in their colonies such as genetic defects, illnesses or infestations of the internal/external varieties, then it is generally granted that a healthy animal is being sold/purchased. The breeder, who's name I have yet to read unless I missed it, could be asked about gout in their breeding stock, but they are probably clean as they have survived and thrived to the point of reproducing great looking offspring as witnessed by the photo. Unless enough evidence can be collected that points to a neglect issue in regards to the treatment of the offspring (enough for a jury of their peers to either convict or or for a judge to rule based on the evidence presented) then the buyer(s) of the animals is probably going to be S.O.L. Likewise, the seller, if pushed to look at a refund on something they adamantly claim is not their fault, is going to be looking for any inkling that conditions were not optimal AFTER the animal was sold...somewhere along the way. They'd use this to weaken the buyer's claim and discredit them in the issue.

By providing the seller's name here, more "networking" among keepers and breeders can take place to locate other offspring that were purchased at or about the same date in order to ascertain the survival of other animals and answer the overall health question.

As a seller of the animals we breed here, I'll offer a possible solution as if it were me (wish it was me with albino BPs and other high-end critters so I wouldn't be stuck in fast food) as the seller. If I had another albino ball that I had for sell, I'd offer to do a partial replacement, perhaps 1/2 price since I don't know exactly what happened and am unable to contact other buyers to see if similar outcomes were regular. This would likely be a hold-back animal and the selling it like this would definitely hurt future production, but worth it to set things right. If I had none available, I'd offer 1st choice of the first clutch to hatch next year at the same price (value fixed at 1/2 the cost of the original animal regardless of unknown costs the following year which could be more or possibly less depending upon production from an unknown number of breeders.) I would not offer a monetary refund as it would seem quite questionable and make me extremely suspicious of the circumstances. The original buyer would have the option of taking the offer or letting it be. It the individual, for whatever reason, chose to wait until the following year's first clutch and then neglected to respond after 2 or 3 serious attempts to contact (both by e-mail and phone),then they would forfeit all rights to the offer. If they chose at any point to decline the offer, then I'd say it was the end of discussion on the issue. I offer this scerario based on reading that the original breeder was successful in breeding attempts over more than one year, so offspring for the following year could/would be expected.

Okay, that was my $0.02 plus change.

David (friendly know-it-not-at-all)