Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

I haven't spoken to Adam, and do not know the whole story here. However, I am amazed Steve that given your history you are so quick to judge without knowing all of the facts. It wasn't that long ago that you were a fugitive from justice, on the run, and asking for everyone to give you the benefit of the doubt before passing judgment...

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

I guess if asking you questions, most of which you avoided, to try and get the actual facts constitutes an agenda, then sure I had one...
I mean I had so much to gain by discrediting you, right?

And I don't know what is going on with Adam, as I previously stated, but I haven't seen anything "proven" so far in this thread. I wasn't going to come right out and call you a hypocrite, but you do a pretty good job yourself of showing that you are...

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

Deb when you become an admin then you can tell me what is or isn't relevant; until then, keep it to yourself, I'm totally uninterested in pretty much anything you have to say, ever....

Since we haven't heard from both parties, nor do we know what may or may not have been agreed upon, it's a bit premature to assign fault, or disparage Adam based on what has been "proven" or not "proven" so far in this thread...

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

The problem is we have no way of knowing what is holding up the payment. It could be the OP saying one thing here on the forums and then making completely different arrangements with Adam. No one knows for sure except those two, Adam hasn't addressed any of the allegations, other than a vague reference in a post that pre-dates this thread on another site. The Original poster hasn't chosen to show any proof to his claims, time line, or correspondence between himself and Adam, even though he stated he was willing and able to do so. For all we know every time He and Adam worked out an arrangement the OP changed his mind and wanted something else, wouldn't be the first time that has happened to any number of sellers. There hasn't been enough info posted or proven one way or the other to say if one or both of them are at fault here; not that that has stopped many from calling for Adam's head. If it weren't for the fact that some people were jealous of Adams early success and/or have their own agendas to further, then the OP would have been compelled into showing his proof before the haters whipped the lemmings into a frenzy...

Personally, I think it is probably a combination of things with fault on both Adam and the OP, but until someone actually posts up some concrete, verifiable facts then there is just no way to know the real story.

*Flame on haters*

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

Things are never so black and white Kevin, often times they are a shade of gray. In this case there appears to be some sort of gray... There hasn't been any info shown to determine what the cause is for the delay in payment. If it is proven that 100% of the fault lies with Adam, then shame on him and he deserves whatever he gets, but until I see such proof I'm not willing to hang this all on Adam. He deserves to take heat for not staying in contact with people, but I still have a feeling that the OP isn't as faultless in this situation as he would have everyone believe.

You've been around here long enough to know that many times the deeper you dig into the initial posts on a bad guy thread the more the story stinks. Which is why usually the accuser is asked to provide proof at the beginning. How many times has a person come here with an accusation only to have it turn out 10 pages later that the actual story was completely different then it was initially laid out?

That's all I've been saying from the get go, lets get all the facts before we throw the rope over the tree branch. Absolutely Adam hasn't handled this situation very well, but I would think that people would want to see verifiable facts before tearing him down....

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

I hear you, but we don't know what they have said to each other since then...

I'm only speculating and this should in no way be taken as fact, but how do we know the conversation hasn't gone something like:

Adam: Hey the CITES originally ran out because you weren't ready for delivery, what would you like to do, get a refund, or pick different snakes?

OP: Well, I see you are incubating XXX morph, could I get some of those when they hatch instead?

Adam: Sure, I'll let you know when they are out of the egg and ready to go

OP: OK, I look forward to it.

Adam: Hey are you ready for these XXX morphs?

OP: Well, the the BP market is in the tank so I don't think OI want those anymore, can I just get what I originally ordered?

Adam: Well, I don't have those available anymore, I can try to get them or just refund you.

OP: Well, OK a refund will work, but not what i originally paid, I could have made $XXXX more if I would have already had what you were going to send me so now i want $XXXX instead.

Adam: Well, I want to work with you, but that's not what I'm willing to pay you, I'll give you the original $XXXX back and toss in XX Morph for your troubles

OP: let me think about it....

Etc, Etc, Etc....

That's just one of a hundred different scenarios; without anyone showing correspondence, we don't know what exactly has been discussed or agreed upon over the course of the last 2 years.

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

The closest I saw Adam admit to anything was when he posted that "Several mistakes were made, he accepts full responsibility for the mistakes and has offered a resolution that was happily accepted". No further details were offered by either party.

Of course Mr. Locke hasn't exactly been consistent with his version of the details in his posts at the various websites:









It seems Mr. Locke can't quite figure out exactly how many snakes he ordered or how much he actually paid. Just one more reason that it would be nice if he posted the invoices, receipts, correspondence, and timeline that he said he would provide.....

Originally Posted by Gecko_Den

I didn't assume anything, I clearly stated that it was speculation and one of many possible scenarios.

I suppose i could have also speculated that the whole thing was a set-up masterminded by the local media, city council, judges and local sheriff aimed at running Adam out of town as one of the possible scenarios, would that have made you feel better.....