FaunaClassifieds - View Single Post - Supreme court to reconsider sales tax on interstate commerce

01-18-2018, 01:49 AM

Well, I've seen this argument bantered about for a long time now, I suppose. But what about the consumer? If the retailers are going to be raking in all that cash from an imposed nationwide enforcement of individual sales taxes, where does that money come from? Yep. Middle class takes it in the shorts, yet again. Not to mention that nebulous class of people known as "lower class" (because of income levels) that are certainly going to be hurt because they are trying to stretch what little money they have as far as they can with every purchase they make. Not to mention that sometimes when a person sees the advertised price, then sees the advertised price PLUS sales tax, well, to some that difference is just enough to get them to walk away from the purchase.

The forces for this proposal have been using a two pronged attack for this effort, whereby on one hand they will claim it is for the poor brick and mortar ONLY retailers going out of business because they can't compete against online companies that consumers do not have to pay sales tax to in order to buy the merchandise they want. Obviously such stores are inept or unable to also engage in an online marketing strategy, I guess. Oddly enough, if they only have a retail store in a single state, marketing in all of the rest of the states would quite likely completely negate that slight negative they experience within their own state. Certainly online marketing even within their own state would have to benefit their bottom line, you would think. So are they REALLY the force behind this movement? From a retail perspective, are they really suffering from this situation, or is it perhaps one or more LARGE online retail concerns jockeying for position instead?

Then on the other hand, the proponents claim that state and local entities are DUE money lost because the residents in those areas will purchase merchandise out of that local taxing area, for whatever reason, but taking money out of local taxing revenue mouths, nonetheless. Now that sounds like a much more powerful motivation, to me. But I guess using dupes as mentioned above, who can't put two and two together to better their own marketing strategy to broaden their customer base would certainly be helpful.

Honestly, I tend to buy a lot of products online and there are multiple reasons why I do that. For one, I have spent countless hours of my time, and $$ for gasoline running around town looking for something specific that I want or need, and would prefer to have it RIGHT NOW, but VERY OFTEN have no such luck and head on home empty handed. I don't know how many times I went to stores looking for something only to have a sales person tell me "No, we don't have it in stock, but we can order it for you. We'll have it here within a week." Jiminy Christmas, I can order it myself, please and thank you, and wouldn't have had to waste my time coming here to look for it! So I wind up ordering it online anyway having wasted all day in town. Seriously, if the retailers want their cake in that they want to force the playing field in their favor in the grab for customers, then they should have to EAT that cake too. Meaning, that the law would REQUIRE them to have everything they claim to stock IN STOCK at each and every store so local customers can buy LOCALLY from them. That seems fair to me, if they want to try to force something like this down our throats.

Heck, I remember not long after moving down here to north Florida, I had a Commodore Amiga computer and read about a new Motorola chip that was supposed to spruce up the processor speed a bit. Motorola 68010, I believe it was, to replace the stock 68000. So I found an electronics shop in Tallahassee and asked the guy at the counter about that new chip. He checked his books and said "No, don't carry it, but bring the computer in and I'll see if I can get one of these other chips I have to fit." Oh really? I kid you not. So yeah, that was a wasted effort. And a lesson learned about trying to limit purchases from people who actually know what the heck they are talking about. Which can be difficult to do, sometimes, locally.

Besides, whoever stated that the federal government has the authority to enforce a state's self proclaimed *right* to the money they want in the form of sales taxes from everyone in every other state? Which implies that each and every state has a right to FORCE another state to enforce that other state's laws. How is that going to fly? Is each state going to send around their own auditing teams to check on each and every sales entity in the entire USA for compliance? Are we going to have a virtual army of "revenuers" running around the countryside chasing down virtual "moonshiners"? I got news for them. No one in, say, New York has a darn thing to say about me here in Florida being required to collect state sales tax for them. None. If I were a retailer and someone from New York ordered something from me online, the collection of New York state sales tax from that person is THEIR problem for enforcing any such STATE laws on THEIR books, not mine. And I seriously doubt the federal government has any legal constitutional authority to force that kind of forced servitude on anyone else, neither.

And as for Amazon not being affected by any such proposed law, well you can bet your bottom dollar that somewhere deep underneath, Jeff Bezos has some notable irons in the fire behind all this because he certainly has a big financial reason for doing so. He would love nothing better than to further eliminate any competition and continue along his chosen path to monopolize online sales and merchandizing entirely. And he certainly has the money to grease those wheels needed for this effort. So yeah, follow the money and see who benefits the most. It is usually just THAT simple.

Interestingly enough, just today I went and ordered a new laptop PC to replace my old ailing unit that I use to process all my email necessities. Where did I order it from? Costco. And yes, they have a local store here, so that meant paying state sales tax. Did they have it in stock? Nope. So I have to pay state sales tax AND shipping for it, and I don't get it in my hot little hands right away, neither. The reason I decided to do so was because they offered the best deal in overall benefits that overshadowed a purely $$ decision. They offer an easy return policy and provide a 2 year warranty along with the price being competitive. They are great to deal with. AND they are local, so returns for repairs or replacement would be an easy matter to accomplish with very little to no hassle. So they had a marketing edge based on the additional services they provided as a company in order to make the sale, even with the drawback of sales tax and shipping.

THAT is how these brick and mortar retailers need to compete. Offer more for the dollars they want to take out of our pockets. Not whine to the government to FORCE us to deal with them locally because they want us to have no financial advantage to do otherwise. I think most people don't shop online because they really want to, they do it because in order to get what they want, they really have to. I think MOST people would prefer to have something they want to buy RIGHT now if they could do so, even at a higher price. But they usually can't so they do the next best thing out of necessity.

And as an additional thought on all this, has anyone considered the additional hidden costs being incurred by buying locally? How much money in wasted gasoline would likely be spent by a random sampling of 100 people driving vehicles all over town looking for something they want to buy? Now how much would be spent if those 100 people instead just purchased their items online, and the UPS or FedEX truck simply delivered those packages to the door of those 100 customers? Let's see, 100 vehicles on the road or just one burning gasoline. Heck, what about the additional pollution pumped into the atmosphere by those 100 vehicles on the roads? Which scenario would be better for the environment as a whole? Or doesn't that matter any longer to the people in government?

Anyway, all in all, logic dictates that such a law would very likely be completely unenforceable. Not to mention that it would likely put every small retailer right out of business in short order. Each and every one of them would have to keep current on each and every state and local sales tax requirement, fill out forms for every one of those entities, and then file all the necessary forms while sending checks for their payments too. I believe they would have to hire at least one additional body just to handle all of that required paperwork. Either that or most would just wind up getting out of the online business aspect of their marketing plan because they couldn't afford to continue it with all the paperwork and red tape. (Well gee, wouldn't Jeff Bezos just think that was a real darn shame?) Yeah, if the federal government wants to completely sink thousands of small business owners and their employees by putting them all out of business, I think this will be just a grand way to accomplish that task. Which, I presume, would also break Jeff Bezos' little heart.

As for me, personally? Well, non-compliance works for me. Sometimes you just gotta say "NO!" to stupid ideas, no matter who comes up with them.

IMHO, of course.

01-18-2018, 01:49 AM	#4
WebSlave	Well, I've seen this argument bantered about for a long time now, I suppose. But what about the consumer? If the retailers are going to be raking in all that cash from an imposed nationwide enforcement of individual sales taxes, where does that money come from? Yep. Middle class takes it in the shorts, yet again. Not to mention that nebulous class of people known as "lower class" (because of income levels) that are certainly going to be hurt because they are trying to stretch what little money they have as far as they can with every purchase they make. Not to mention that sometimes when a person sees the advertised price, then sees the advertised price PLUS sales tax, well, to some that difference is just enough to get them to walk away from the purchase. The forces for this proposal have been using a two pronged attack for this effort, whereby on one hand they will claim it is for the poor brick and mortar ONLY retailers going out of business because they can't compete against online companies that consumers do not have to pay sales tax to in order to buy the merchandise they want. Obviously such stores are inept or unable to also engage in an online marketing strategy, I guess. Oddly enough, if they only have a retail store in a single state, marketing in all of the rest of the states would quite likely completely negate that slight negative they experience within their own state. Certainly online marketing even within their own state would have to benefit their bottom line, you would think. So are they REALLY the force behind this movement? From a retail perspective, are they really suffering from this situation, or is it perhaps one or more LARGE online retail concerns jockeying for position instead? Then on the other hand, the proponents claim that state and local entities are DUE money lost because the residents in those areas will purchase merchandise out of that local taxing area, for whatever reason, but taking money out of local taxing revenue mouths, nonetheless. Now that sounds like a much more powerful motivation, to me. But I guess using dupes as mentioned above, who can't put two and two together to better their own marketing strategy to broaden their customer base would certainly be helpful. Honestly, I tend to buy a lot of products online and there are multiple reasons why I do that. For one, I have spent countless hours of my time, and $$ for gasoline running around town looking for something specific that I want or need, and would prefer to have it RIGHT NOW, but VERY OFTEN have no such luck and head on home empty handed. I don't know how many times I went to stores looking for something only to have a sales person tell me "No, we don't have it in stock, but we can order it for you. We'll have it here within a week." Jiminy Christmas, I can order it myself, please and thank you, and wouldn't have had to waste my time coming here to look for it! So I wind up ordering it online anyway having wasted all day in town. Seriously, if the retailers want their cake in that they want to force the playing field in their favor in the grab for customers, then they should have to EAT that cake too. Meaning, that the law would REQUIRE them to have everything they claim to stock IN STOCK at each and every store so local customers can buy LOCALLY from them. That seems fair to me, if they want to try to force something like this down our throats. Heck, I remember not long after moving down here to north Florida, I had a Commodore Amiga computer and read about a new Motorola chip that was supposed to spruce up the processor speed a bit. Motorola 68010, I believe it was, to replace the stock 68000. So I found an electronics shop in Tallahassee and asked the guy at the counter about that new chip. He checked his books and said "No, don't carry it, but bring the computer in and I'll see if I can get one of these other chips I have to fit." Oh really? I kid you not. So yeah, that was a wasted effort. And a lesson learned about trying to limit purchases from people who actually know what the heck they are talking about. Which can be difficult to do, sometimes, locally. Besides, whoever stated that the federal government has the authority to enforce a state's self proclaimed right to the money they want in the form of sales taxes from everyone in every other state? Which implies that each and every state has a right to FORCE another state to enforce that other state's laws. How is that going to fly? Is each state going to send around their own auditing teams to check on each and every sales entity in the entire USA for compliance? Are we going to have a virtual army of "revenuers" running around the countryside chasing down virtual "moonshiners"? I got news for them. No one in, say, New York has a darn thing to say about me here in Florida being required to collect state sales tax for them. None. If I were a retailer and someone from New York ordered something from me online, the collection of New York state sales tax from that person is THEIR problem for enforcing any such STATE laws on THEIR books, not mine. And I seriously doubt the federal government has any legal constitutional authority to force that kind of forced servitude on anyone else, neither. And as for Amazon not being affected by any such proposed law, well you can bet your bottom dollar that somewhere deep underneath, Jeff Bezos has some notable irons in the fire behind all this because he certainly has a big financial reason for doing so. He would love nothing better than to further eliminate any competition and continue along his chosen path to monopolize online sales and merchandizing entirely. And he certainly has the money to grease those wheels needed for this effort. So yeah, follow the money and see who benefits the most. It is usually just THAT simple. Interestingly enough, just today I went and ordered a new laptop PC to replace my old ailing unit that I use to process all my email necessities. Where did I order it from? Costco. And yes, they have a local store here, so that meant paying state sales tax. Did they have it in stock? Nope. So I have to pay state sales tax AND shipping for it, and I don't get it in my hot little hands right away, neither. The reason I decided to do so was because they offered the best deal in overall benefits that overshadowed a purely $$ decision. They offer an easy return policy and provide a 2 year warranty along with the price being competitive. They are great to deal with. AND they are local, so returns for repairs or replacement would be an easy matter to accomplish with very little to no hassle. So they had a marketing edge based on the additional services they provided as a company in order to make the sale, even with the drawback of sales tax and shipping. THAT is how these brick and mortar retailers need to compete. Offer more for the dollars they want to take out of our pockets. Not whine to the government to FORCE us to deal with them locally because they want us to have no financial advantage to do otherwise. I think most people don't shop online because they really want to, they do it because in order to get what they want, they really have to. I think MOST people would prefer to have something they want to buy RIGHT now if they could do so, even at a higher price. But they usually can't so they do the next best thing out of necessity. And as an additional thought on all this, has anyone considered the additional hidden costs being incurred by buying locally? How much money in wasted gasoline would likely be spent by a random sampling of 100 people driving vehicles all over town looking for something they want to buy? Now how much would be spent if those 100 people instead just purchased their items online, and the UPS or FedEX truck simply delivered those packages to the door of those 100 customers? Let's see, 100 vehicles on the road or just one burning gasoline. Heck, what about the additional pollution pumped into the atmosphere by those 100 vehicles on the roads? Which scenario would be better for the environment as a whole? Or doesn't that matter any longer to the people in government? Anyway, all in all, logic dictates that such a law would very likely be completely unenforceable. Not to mention that it would likely put every small retailer right out of business in short order. Each and every one of them would have to keep current on each and every state and local sales tax requirement, fill out forms for every one of those entities, and then file all the necessary forms while sending checks for their payments too. I believe they would have to hire at least one additional body just to handle all of that required paperwork. Either that or most would just wind up getting out of the online business aspect of their marketing plan because they couldn't afford to continue it with all the paperwork and red tape. (Well gee, wouldn't Jeff Bezos just think that was a real darn shame?) Yeah, if the federal government wants to completely sink thousands of small business owners and their employees by putting them all out of business, I think this will be just a grand way to accomplish that task. Which, I presume, would also break Jeff Bezos' little heart. As for me, personally? Well, non-compliance works for me. Sometimes you just gotta say "NO!" to stupid ideas, no matter who comes up with them. IMHO, of course.