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10-30-2004, 11:02 AM

Many venomous keepers seriously have altered their houses or at least one room to be completely escape proof and invested large amounts of time and money in the remodeling of the room and cages.

If we can use the State of Florida for an example as to the degree one must put into learning and education they must obtain before being allowed to own a venomous reptile I think it will show some what of the cost some venomous keepers must face. The Law in Florida is in brief that a person must have no less than 1 year not to be less than 1000 hours in the “Care, Feeding, Handling, Husbandry of the species for which the permit is sought.” With this in mind most persons who wish to go through the process and obtain their Venomous Reptiles Permit” VRL” do so as volunteers with persons who own the species that the trainee wishes some day own. As volunteers by nature are NOT paid for their time and efforts it is done at the expense of the trainee.

If one was to look at the potential cost for this training it shows a very high level of commitment and personal cost. Factoring in that the average pet shop employee is making for sake of argument $7.00 and hour then over the training period of 1000 hours it equates to $7,000.00 of the trainees time. Factoring in the for other expenses such as gas and food during training of another $1,000.00 and then looking at the high probability that the trainee purchases literature and or does web research we can easily factor in another $2,000.00 in time and publications.

Now we can not forget caging, Venomous reptiles require locking escape proof caging and most keepers go with high dollar cages for piece of mind such as Vision, Neodesha, Precision and the like. The price on these cages and other caging needs can easily reach $1,000.00. So we are looking at a potential out of pocket expense of $11,000.00 for that first venomous snake.

Ok so some of you are saying no way. Well think about it how, much are you paid an hour at work? Or how much have you spent on caging or reptile related products and books? It is a very real number when factoring it all in to account. That is one hell of an expensive first snake and I didn’t even factor in the animals cost or actual cost for permits.

In some cases however people are seen doing highly dangerous acts with very dangerous animals. Many of the acts you see on television or in a circus or other amusement arena are under highly controlled circumstances. There are many safety protocols and large crews on hand for added safety. These are shows designed to gain ratings or bring in the general public for profit.

Working with dangerous species be they venomous reptiles large constrictor, Varanus species, Crocodilians or even big cats or other large carnivores does require much more attention to safety and a seriousness not associated with species that are considered less dangerous to humans. Working with all the above animals is never and should never be allowed by novice persons with no experience in the nature or habits of the animals involved. All animal have certain predictable traits within the species but each animal’s temperament and attitude can vary greatly within the same species including siblings / clutch mates. This is where training comes in with experienced persons in their prospective fields or hobbies.

If you look at driving for instance it is required that a person must obtain a license and pass a test under supervision. Driving is a dangerous activity and thus is regulated. Venomous reptile keeping is becoming more and more regulated. Much like other activities that are precieved as dangerous I believe that some regulations are needed to insure both the handlers and other parties safety.

So now here is a few questions for you now that you have read all the information posted from myself and others in this thread.

Can you honestly say that venomoids are truly safer then a hot?

Is there any valid reason to have a venomoid vs a hot?

Is the surgery needed for any reason ?

Would not proper trainning and safety standards be a much better solution then an outright ban?

If you want to ban one species then why not ban them all?

With direct evidance there are far more dangerous animals kept and more dangerous items and activities in life should we just start banning them to protect us from our own stupidity or vanity?

Where do you draw the line as to what is safe or not ?

What gives one person the right to tell another they cant do it because it may potentially be dangerous?

10-30-2004, 11:02 AM	#14
Mustangrde1	Many venomous keepers seriously have altered their houses or at least one room to be completely escape proof and invested large amounts of time and money in the remodeling of the room and cages. If we can use the State of Florida for an example as to the degree one must put into learning and education they must obtain before being allowed to own a venomous reptile I think it will show some what of the cost some venomous keepers must face. The Law in Florida is in brief that a person must have no less than 1 year not to be less than 1000 hours in the “Care, Feeding, Handling, Husbandry of the species for which the permit is sought.” With this in mind most persons who wish to go through the process and obtain their Venomous Reptiles Permit” VRL” do so as volunteers with persons who own the species that the trainee wishes some day own. As volunteers by nature are NOT paid for their time and efforts it is done at the expense of the trainee. If one was to look at the potential cost for this training it shows a very high level of commitment and personal cost. Factoring in that the average pet shop employee is making for sake of argument $7.00 and hour then over the training period of 1000 hours it equates to $7,000.00 of the trainees time. Factoring in the for other expenses such as gas and food during training of another $1,000.00 and then looking at the high probability that the trainee purchases literature and or does web research we can easily factor in another $2,000.00 in time and publications. Now we can not forget caging, Venomous reptiles require locking escape proof caging and most keepers go with high dollar cages for piece of mind such as Vision, Neodesha, Precision and the like. The price on these cages and other caging needs can easily reach $1,000.00. So we are looking at a potential out of pocket expense of $11,000.00 for that first venomous snake. Ok so some of you are saying no way. Well think about it how, much are you paid an hour at work? Or how much have you spent on caging or reptile related products and books? It is a very real number when factoring it all in to account. That is one hell of an expensive first snake and I didn’t even factor in the animals cost or actual cost for permits. In some cases however people are seen doing highly dangerous acts with very dangerous animals. Many of the acts you see on television or in a circus or other amusement arena are under highly controlled circumstances. There are many safety protocols and large crews on hand for added safety. These are shows designed to gain ratings or bring in the general public for profit. Working with dangerous species be they venomous reptiles large constrictor, Varanus species, Crocodilians or even big cats or other large carnivores does require much more attention to safety and a seriousness not associated with species that are considered less dangerous to humans. Working with all the above animals is never and should never be allowed by novice persons with no experience in the nature or habits of the animals involved. All animal have certain predictable traits within the species but each animal’s temperament and attitude can vary greatly within the same species including siblings / clutch mates. This is where training comes in with experienced persons in their prospective fields or hobbies. If you look at driving for instance it is required that a person must obtain a license and pass a test under supervision. Driving is a dangerous activity and thus is regulated. Venomous reptile keeping is becoming more and more regulated. Much like other activities that are precieved as dangerous I believe that some regulations are needed to insure both the handlers and other parties safety. So now here is a few questions for you now that you have read all the information posted from myself and others in this thread. Can you honestly say that venomoids are truly safer then a hot? Is there any valid reason to have a venomoid vs a hot? Is the surgery needed for any reason ? Would not proper trainning and safety standards be a much better solution then an outright ban? If you want to ban one species then why not ban them all? With direct evidance there are far more dangerous animals kept and more dangerous items and activities in life should we just start banning them to protect us from our own stupidity or vanity? Where do you draw the line as to what is safe or not ? What gives one person the right to tell another they cant do it because it may potentially be dangerous?