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09-08-2005, 07:42 AM

This is actually getting somewhere.

I've only ever found one site (unfortunately, I've lost it

) that shows any "definative proof", that venomous snakes "need" that venom. Speaking primarily of Hemotoxic venoms here. It has been shown that some of your highly Neurotoxic venoms contain little or no evidence of the phospholipase A2 enzymes (pla2). I have however, found more sites to support this belief, than sites that discount it.

Was talking with Brian Smith over the weekend just past, (trying to find that lost article

) and he is co-authoring an article on this very same subject. It will be out soon, and I'm sure He will let it be known on the forums when it is finalized.

Here is My theory on this subject..........
Ever since time the animal world has "evolved" to adapt for specific needs. Fish grew lungs, snakes lost their legs, chameleons are able to camoflauge, some venoms travel faster than your blood does,(via nerve cells) Etc, Etc, Etc.
I believe the PLA2 enzyme (the main part of this necrosis) is part of this evolution. Evolved to help "aid" in digestion (for whatever reasons). Knowing that most evolution occurs do to "necessity" for survival, I would tend to believe that it is a necessity. I don't believe the animal world evolves for NO reason. Nature is just that way.

But as suggested, it would take many long term studies to prove this. Like two litter mates, one voided, and one natural, and study them intently in order to prove this. I believe the voided one will not live as long a life, nor reach it's maximum potential size, maybe even some health problems depending on idividual species.

There are many things that support that other side also. Most of that so called proof has involved snakes that are primarily neurotoxic. IMO the ones who carry primarily neuro's never had a need to evolve those necrotic properties in their venom. Else they would adapt, or evolve, to overcome the problem.

But hey, I COULD be wrong. I'm no doctor. Not a scientist either. I'm just a dumb OPHIOPHILIAC who has been interested in venom, and venomous things for a long time. I've read as much as I could about them.
But someone would have to "prove" me wrong, and by so doing, will answer all of our questions. LOL

Micro chipping..........No harm done. My albino has one. had it for 4 years. I paid alot for her in 99, and thought it worth the extra $120. She never did show any ill effects. My last two Pitts had them also, and me Mastino that my X managed to steal in the divorce.

hhmoore,
Great post's. Spoken with intelligence, and some unfortunate experience. I enjoyed reading those.

Ciao,
Rick

09-08-2005, 07:42 AM	#31
crotalusadamanteus	This is actually getting somewhere. I've only ever found one site (unfortunately, I've lost it ) that shows any "definative proof", that venomous snakes "need" that venom. Speaking primarily of Hemotoxic venoms here. It has been shown that some of your highly Neurotoxic venoms contain little or no evidence of the phospholipase A2 enzymes (pla2). I have however, found more sites to support this belief, than sites that discount it. Was talking with Brian Smith over the weekend just past, (trying to find that lost article ) and he is co-authoring an article on this very same subject. It will be out soon, and I'm sure He will let it be known on the forums when it is finalized. Here is My theory on this subject.......... Ever since time the animal world has "evolved" to adapt for specific needs. Fish grew lungs, snakes lost their legs, chameleons are able to camoflauge, some venoms travel faster than your blood does,(via nerve cells) Etc, Etc, Etc. I believe the PLA2 enzyme (the main part of this necrosis) is part of this evolution. Evolved to help "aid" in digestion (for whatever reasons). Knowing that most evolution occurs do to "necessity" for survival, I would tend to believe that it is a necessity. I don't believe the animal world evolves for NO reason. Nature is just that way. But as suggested, it would take many long term studies to prove this. Like two litter mates, one voided, and one natural, and study them intently in order to prove this. I believe the voided one will not live as long a life, nor reach it's maximum potential size, maybe even some health problems depending on idividual species. There are many things that support that other side also. Most of that so called proof has involved snakes that are primarily neurotoxic. IMO the ones who carry primarily neuro's never had a need to evolve those necrotic properties in their venom. Else they would adapt, or evolve, to overcome the problem. But hey, I COULD be wrong. I'm no doctor. Not a scientist either. I'm just a dumb OPHIOPHILIAC who has been interested in venom, and venomous things for a long time. I've read as much as I could about them. But someone would have to "prove" me wrong, and by so doing, will answer all of our questions. LOL Micro chipping..........No harm done. My albino has one. had it for 4 years. I paid alot for her in 99, and thought it worth the extra $120. She never did show any ill effects. My last two Pitts had them also, and me Mastino that my X managed to steal in the divorce. hhmoore, Great post's. Spoken with intelligence, and some unfortunate experience. I enjoyed reading those. Ciao, Rick