UnmeiNoHi

I was waiting for a rebuttal from James but it appears he isn't interested in saving his own behind, so here goes my own piece of this rather interesting story.

In response to ldydrgn's post: Here's one of the very early e-mails he sent me before there was any problem.
By his own accounts his shipped animals to these people. Maybe if someone knows them fairly well, they wouldn't mind asking to see if they'll chime in?

And now to the meat of it... (typos and all)
I'm sorry I never saved a copy of the original ad posted over on k-snake classifieds but any of you who tread that land will probably recall it.

The ad for the female I purchased was up in late September. And said something like "5ft pastel het for anery $450, $40 for shipping" It was rather light on information but I had seen the animal before (as many people have.)
These are the three pictures in the ad: (The one where she's in the chair I'm not 100% on it was either that one or one very similar to it but the point is the same.)





There were a few e-mails and a phone call. He assured me she was "100% healthy" and he was only selling her to make room etc etc. There isn't anything particular about any of these exchanges that I can tell so I will omit them here.
On Sept. 28th I paypaled Mr. Church $490 to the address bcrosby@carolina.rr.com.
She arrived on Thursday October 7th at 4:00. She was shipped UPS Saver (automatic points against him for that but I never addressed the issue with him so its not a big deal). I can get a picture of the box if need be but it would only be overkill I think.

The VERY first thing I noticed was her jaw. The second she was out of the bag. It was VERY obvious. I examined it immediately and it wasn't cheesy or painful to her, but there was some sort of clear problem. Her lower jaw looked bulgy and tilted to one side and her nose is very small looking against the bulging jaw. And there was slight inflammation in the mouth. The inflammation lead to my supposition about the problem as seen in my message.
That night I emailed him around 9:40. This was my message.

His reply:
[quote]
Sent : Thursday, October 7, 2004 10:04 PM
Subject : Re: she has arrived safely...

Hey Jessica.
Just got home. No she was fine. I packed the box well I thought. She hasnt
gotten injured here. Sorry I forgot to leave a tracking # oops. Enjoy her
James C.


I waited, wondering if the swelling would go down if it was in fact some sort of trauma.
The I e-mailed him again, increasingly concerned. As I mentioned here, I attached some pics, to prove my point. If those pics are also necessary then they can be provided (and looking through my pictures it appears I took pics the day she arrived on the 7th they just weren't uploaded to my computer until the 13th... a screenshot could prove that but only if someone calls for it.)

His reply:
On October 21st I posted my first inquiry on herpview.com about the matter. I count many of the people there my friends and wanted their opinion on the condition and to a lesser extent the deal but it was never intended to develop into a BOI-esque situation.
Here is the thread
The pictures posted in that thread are taken on the 20th.
It was either that next day or the following that I went ahead and made the vet appointment. I e-mailed him a brief statement that I was taking her to the vet and he decided not to reply. After the vet appointment I postedthis thread
and at the same time e-mailed Mr. Church.


His reply:
I'd like to mention that the "great rep" mention stemmed from a BOI post about him.

And now his reply:
His only reply:
He calls the night of the 2nd... and because I was busy like I told him, I wasn't able to answer the phone. He e-mails to say that he has called and that's it. He calls again at some point and I call him back at that point he says he can't talk to me and says he'll call me back in ten minutes he doesn't so I drop the phone issue. I don't like talking important things over the phone because like I stated in the e-mail, an e-mail is a hard thing that yes can be edited when its copied and pasted but isn't as bad as the phone where it's two people hopefully trying to remember everything that's conversing.
At the same time, I'm very busy and my phone is usually off. It's very hard to get a hold me by phone which is my own fault but in any case. There was no contact by phone for awhile.
My memory and my game of saving every e-mail has failed me entirely and I think I e-mailed him asking to just e-mail me the information but I could have intended but hadn't gotten around to it by the time the "stuff" started over on Randy's site.
here
The post that riled James up was on the 15th and then he e-mailed me on the 16th in the wee hours of the morn.

And his last message to me...
My last message to him which was as I believe it that night although I don't have a date.
Now, after all of that. I can only assume that the accusations are in some respect true. Otherwise why is James so unwilling to provide evidence to dispute the claims, which he could do very easily. Instead he consistently gets angry without providing any real evidence.

And the vet by the way is Dr. Scott Stahl . Well known and respected and he does know his snakes.

That's the whole of it. I am of course not happy how the deal ended up but in the end I am glad that the truth about his line is out. Animals with inheritable deformities should not be propagated; its not fair to the animals and not healthy for any population, especially a captive one where such issues can only be compounded by poor breeding practices.
That being said I may decide to breed this female one day in an attempt to see if the coloration (which I believe to be mutant) and the deformity are connected; and any and all deformed animals will be put down humanely if there should be any, regardless of generation. Some would argue that these babies would make for pets but the pet market is flooded with pet quality animals and well I just don't want to risk the gene pool with the anomaly. If and when I do decide to breed her (its definitely not inevitable) all results will be posted in a public forum.
I believe if Mr. Church had decided to be more open about the jaw issue and its possible ties with a new mutation, none of this would have occurred. Perhaps he knows the two traits are linked and therefore doesn't want the word out, but to sell just one as he did with me was enough to announce it with a loudspeaker.
Like it has been stated, you have to wonder what other animals he's sold or what worse cases he's put down?
Time may tell or it may not... Either way, James Church's dishonesty and breeding policies have shown him as he truly is.

And excuse the tremendous length of this post....