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Originally Posted by pscaulkins
OMG Tracie. So the names of the bacteria's that killed that Jeff's dragons is finally known. His dragons had to have a suppressed immune system or they would not have gotten those bacteria's. I know a positive dragon that had those same bacteria's that was cured of them. So what does that say? Did you Jeff get proper medical care for your dragons? If an adeno positive dragon can get cured, I would think a so called healthy one would have a better chance.
Shame, shame that people have to attack other people for their own agenda's. .
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LMFAO, I'm sorry Sandy, I did not know that I owed you or anyone else the names of the bacteria that killed my dragons. In fact I found it rather rude for you to contact me in email routing around looking for me to explain my situation to you. And I would expect nothing less then your next comment. My dragons had to have had suppressed immune systems or they would not have gotten those bacterias? So basically what you are saying is it wouldnt matter how many infected horn worms these gravid dragons were fed, if their immune systems were normal they would still be alive? That is very interesting. So it really doesnt matter how much of this bacteria has entered their system, a dragon with a flawless imune system could have over come this? I also had dragons that ate considerably less worms (that were not gravid) that were effected as well but did overcome this and are back to normal. What does that say? To me it simply says that they were exposed to a much lower amount then my gravid girls were. But what do I know? You obviously know much more then my Vet did, why didnt he think of that? FWIW, What is my agenda? You obviously know a lot about me so I would enjoy reading what my agenda would be.
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Originally Posted by pscaulkins
I have to two huge healthy adeno positive dragons but at the cost of a few thousand to get to this point. Sorry guys, anyone purchasing dragons from a breeder that refuses to test is almost positive to get a positive one and I will not recommend a breeder like that. 
If you don't have experience with adeno or know someone that does or did then how can you discredit Tracie? Also, in my book, if you don't test, you can't say you have healthy dragons.  It's as simple as that. |
Again Sandy, So because I refuse to test, anyone who purchases a dragon from us is pretty much guaranteed to get a dragon that is adeno positive? Why do you guys keep on running in circles? People need to take responsibility and stop blaming AV on deaths that could more then likely be traced back to improper husbandry. Tere, again that was not directed at you either.
I can discredit Tracie because she still has no facts to support her argument. Show me proof not suggestions. And updated information would be great too, as long as there is evidence to support their suggestions. We can agree to disagree until the cows come home but until there is proof and hard facts to support yours and her argument you will not change my opinion.
Sometimes things just happen that we may not understand. I still feel that week baby dragons that hatch out in the wild will not survive, but in captivity these babies that would not survive in the wild can survive in captivity. Should we keep them alive, it's a personal decision. They are not exposed to the elements their wild counterparts are. Should those dragons ever be bred? Probably not and it's sad to see a baby not thrive, it really is heartbraking but, do we stop breeding because we had one dragon not thrive out of 10 clutches of strong healthy dragon. My point is that we don't have to understand everything. Why did my best friend pass away to leukemia at 28 years old? I don't know the answer. Things happen that we have no acceptable answers for. There are terrible things that kill humans, do we stop moving forward, do we close down business's and schools, do we stop reproducing? There are far worse diseases that kill us yet we keep moving forward, maybe we will find answers in our lifetime and maybe we won't. We as breeders are responsible people. We do not breed the week. We breed the strong and pass the strong genes down to future generations. As you know we have a somewhat limited gene pool here and we make due with what we have. And we do a good job. People like Rob and Vickie Dachiu are invaluable yet they are gone from the groups now too. And why? Because people that don't know them make ridiculous statements and make assumptions about their ethics? Instead of learning from truly ethical and responsible people, you guys bashed them, and who looses? You guy's loose. They did actual research and tests on adeno positive dragons. They have actual findings of their own, no one here will know what their findings are because they no longer come here, and who could blame them. Weather you want to admit it or not, there are some fantastic breeders out there that have a wealth of information but because they have different opinions then you and Tracie, they have to go. Just because you are not kept in the loop with other findings does not mean there is nothing being done.
That being said, we can agree to disagree but.If the information provided was delivered in an appropriate way people may feel different. Especially if there were actual real findings.
Jeff