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Old 04-06-2007, 10:21 PM   #1
draggintails
Adenovirus Document from University of Florida

Update from U of F
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Adenovirus.pdf (67.6 KB, 1221 views)
 
Old 04-07-2007, 12:22 AM   #2
Drache613
Hello

Hello Tammy,

Thank you for posting that for us!!

Tracie
 
Old 04-07-2007, 12:44 AM   #3
Denisebme
Quote:
Originally Posted by draggintails
Update from U of F
Does anyone else feel like crying?
 
Old 04-07-2007, 02:04 AM   #4
whiskersmom
I can't get it to open, is there any other way we could link it or post it? If not....what does it say????? PLease!!!!
 
Old 04-07-2007, 02:23 AM   #5
CheriS
You need adobe acobat reader to see it

you can download it online

It says the same thing that about a dozen published papers already online and already mentioned on this sites in the past and the prior letter they released.

The only difference I can see is that they state most their tests they have ran are positive, but they do no state any numbers of test or numbers of breeders colonies that it is from or the time period which I would have liked to see. I saw someone say they thought 500 and I had thought last October it was under 200, so I do not now which or if they had a lot more test in 5 months. I really do think that this left unchecked for so many years allowed many ownwers and breeders dragons to become infected
 
Old 04-07-2007, 02:47 AM   #6
Denisebme
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheriS
You need adobe acobat reader to see it

you can download it online

It says the same thing that about a dozen published papers already online and already mentioned on this sites in the past and the prior letter they released.

The only difference I can see is that they state most their tests they have ran are positive, but they do no state any numbers of test or numbers of breeders colonies that it is from or the time period which I would have liked to see. I saw someone say they thought 500 and I had thought last October it was under 200, so I do not now which or if they had a lot more test in 5 months. I really do think that this left unchecked for so many years allowed many ownwers and breeders dragons to become infected
I've heard, and admittedly the information came from someone with connections to a large breeder better left unnamed, that they had tested 500, I don't know that for a fact. if it is only 500, then we definitely need to get more people testing because that simply isn't a big enough study.
It's frustrating to know now that the PCR testing has been available since 2003 because no one was doing it. If people had way back then, we'd would maybe be dealing with a whole different issue today. Sad, sad, sad.
I know, hindsight is 20/20 and all that, and we can't live with shoulda, coulda, woulda, but I'm just.. well, a bit depressed by this whole thing.
 
Old 04-07-2007, 09:50 AM   #7
draggintails
I asked a long time ago and he told me that they have been doing this test for years, I had asked that if they did the first few years testing on sick and dead only...no he said they did colony testing and they have been doing it ....this is the accumulation of several years testing and they have tested a lot of lizards, it is over 500 (I joke that I was the only one testing..that was toungue in cheek)..that was just a guess on someone's part and Brian did not give that person a number..what he said/meant was too few for the amount of dragons out there and you have to guess that there are a lot of dragons out there and even several thousand tests are waaaay too few, but they do give the big picture..these are colonies and individual animals from all over the country and the one I imported from Austria..that had no contact with US dragons.

I asked him straight out months ago if he thought all dragons were positive just some were not shedding virus on the date fecals were pulled and he was silent..like it was a thought going through the researchers minds before this and he said he didn't know, he came back with "most dragons are positive".

I had this information months ago which is why I have been so morbid and negative....... I betcha they are all pos and the negs just didn't shed virus in the fecal (only those with test results attached that say otherwise can debate this..if there are no test results attached to your argument please don't bother me)....the PCR results say this to us, the EM results say this to us and you have read the other forms of testing besides the PCR are not as accurate..even the necropsies are not as accurate as the PCR. So the breeders that are saying they think they all have/had this from way back......you can't argue with them (and I engaged into some loud argements with a few of them without any proof on my side..I believed this information that there were many negative colonies at first, I hung on to it..but I never saw one test or any proof, not ever, not one, 0, none,I have asked and asked to speak with these people or to just see one test......they dont exist, can't find them, testing just said they didnt test or if they did, they lied).....the testing methods from before 2003 PCR were not as accurate..that includes biopsies and there have not been many EM tests to date. So now the people I argued with (and it wasn't Rob or Vickie) are laughing at me because I have egg on my face.

So, the people with the negative colonies where are you? You need to tell us you exist and give us some hope because we can't find you in the testing figures or anywhere else.
 
Old 04-07-2007, 10:45 AM   #8
jimsdragons
hi draggintails i feel the same way you do on this hole isue.. all i hear are all positive dragons so just like i really want too see the negative ones but i really dont think any are out there....................
 
Old 04-07-2007, 11:55 AM   #9
CheriS
Tammy, it is curious how you now say that all have this, when you stated you have ones that have tested negative and more than once. You also have positive ones, so are you saying you will not try to keep those negative testing ones negative?

I have necropsy reports that DID look for adenovirus and did not find any evidence of it in a bearded dragon, and not just in liver sections, but through the whole animal. I believed someone at the time that all dragons have this and found out that was not true and yes, spent $400 on one testing alone to try and find it.

How can you say all have this when Universities say they do have negative test and more than once. I know of dragons that have had multiple EM test and are still negative. It's a virus, not a body part, the animals has to contact it sometime from a positive one, it does not just magically happen

You state you imported from Austria and that one was positive, I state I imported from Germany and had negative ones. Englandish breeders state they have negatve ones. Australian ones state that adenovirus is not a problem there or been found much and I may be wonrg, but I understood they have to account for their dragons in captivity and when they die.

AND AGAIN, everyone seems to ignore the fact ALL doctors agree that there are mortalities attributed to positive ones.

No, I do not beleive that all are positive, no one but some breeders state that, the Doctors doing the testing sure do not. Saying we are a lab and do $60 testing and MANY of those are positive is not saying that all are positive. A few online that bought from the same breeders and have some that test positive do not state that cause they also get some negative tests and also the Doctors that do the testing state they are not saying there are not clear ones or can be clear ones and stated there was an obligation to tell people if you have positive ones.

Is it widespread in some lines, oh yes, I do believe it is ... NOW

Did I miss something?
 
Old 04-07-2007, 12:04 PM   #10
CheriS
One more thing.. I would really like to know the YEARS they have been doing testing and not using liver biopsy or necropsy, because if that is true, then they lied to me several years ago and I do not beleive they did

The big question, and that has been my question for 5 years. What are we as an industry going to do to try and protect those that are negative and rebuild captive colonies that are as the Doctors state now and for years have said the same thing?

Business as usual? Business as usually but with notice and education to buyers, be they someone just looking for a pet or someone looking for furture breeders.... like a care sheet/info sheet?
What can we all come together with one plan that we ask breeders to adhere to? Give you Doctors statements with the care sheets? Make them available at shows? or are we back to sweep it under the table like 5 years ago?
 
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