Info *Kris Smalley : Disturbing photos

kkevs said:

I'm ultimately responsible for every atrocity that happened under my roof, just as I am ultimately responsible for 95% of the reptiles in my home being killed by a faulty 60+ year old furnace I'd repeatedly asked my landlord to replace.
Kris Smalley

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kkevs said:

I don't have any animals that are staying, the 6 survivors of the furnace explosion (blowout) are being shipped out Monday to a friend in Texas and 1 for a friend and his family.

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Are you saying that you had about 100 animals living in those conditions? I don't think that animals pray, but if they did...I bet they were praying for a furnace explosion.

Kris, what is the name of this roommate/girlfriend? I went back and looked at the pictures and noticed this person picked the snakes up to show the problems. How can you pick up a diseased red tail but not clean the enclosure? That's why this person wants to remain anonymous, because she neglected them just as much. She wants you to take all the heat Kris.

Focal X said:

No way. The only time I've seen someone hang those fly traps is when there is already a fly problem and those things are filled up! So someone most likely hung those after it was disgusting in there.

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The reason there were so many flies on the fly strip was because they used the strip to get rid of the fly problem, not get rid of the reason the flies are even there to begin with.

chongorojo said:

There is no way in **** those animals got that way in a few months.. emaciation of that magnitude takes longer than that! So you were sick... really really sick apparently... but here you are and your telling me you NEVER checked up on those snakes? EVER? Even Even with someone else caring for YOUR COLLECTION? You never even peeked in to the room??...... EVER? Nope.. not buying that bull don't care how sick you were or how bad of a job she was doing... if you cared about ANYTHING those poor living beings you would have FOUND SOME ONE TO HELP THEM/YOU OUT!


How many people in this thread would come to my aid IF I was on my death bed here in Arizona and help care for my collection if I couldn't do it for myself?? I'm sure there's many that would come and ship them to competent keepers for me at the VERY least...
(not directed to you AZ boys I know you would all be in my facility in the blink of an eye if I needed you)

I'm gonna go barf now...

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I could think of not only a few, but many!

kkevs said:

the 6 survivors of the furnace explosion (blowout) are being shipped out Monday to a friend in Texas and 1 for a friend and his family.

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Has your friend seen pictures of the snakes? If those snakes are in half the condition they were in they will more then likely die on the trip. I hope you paid shipping. As a responsible reptile owner you should have known to not ship them. Unless you by chance have recently dated pictures to prove good health?

6 weeks?????? so Im assuming if she didn't clean the cages she didn't feed them?If you look at one of the pictures not sure which one but the ghost boa looks like it hasn't ate in 3 months. If you are in the same building as your reptiles EVERYDAY there is no excuse to not keep cages clean and change water.

I have already posted several times explaining the situation, and as to being able or not to physically handle the care of the room I am currently disabled, have been for 6 years, and during the time period the pics were taken I was as I said before, sick as a dog, lying flat on my back, coughing up my lungs and unable to even walk to the bathroom without sweating through a shirt. It eventually progressed into pneumonia. I just spoke with the original poster and she doesn't want anything to do with this, why I cannot say. I also received a carpet python that had an upper resp infection from Ms. Erne which did not respond to antibiotics or extra heat, it subsequently died and transmitted the same infection to several of my animals which also died. Take it as you will, I haven't been avoiding responding to any of these accusations, you just have to scan through the pages to read what I wrote.

That's funny Kris because you KNEW that carpet had a very slight wheeze yet still took it into your collection even after I said it did. You didn't quarantine it nor say, no keep it until it gets better. You took it and placed it in the same rack as yours.

Also emails stating that my JCP did NOT kill your animals.

.................................................................................
Re: reptiles
From:
L Bothrops <[email protected]>
Add to Contacts
To: Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]>
MRSA? lol..

I don't think she's sick. And he did not lose those animals because of your JCP.

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]> wrote:
Kris was claiming he lost a blood python and two albino burm babies. It wouldn't surprise me if he lost others due to whatever reason just for the simple truth of the way he keeps his snakes and the filth they live in.

I would be more likely to believe Kris had he given me a vet report and culture stating in fact that the JCP I brought over had MRSA and actually did infect his snakes with the same, but I just highly doubt that. Also what is nerve racking is I'm a vet tech and could have easily accessed the needed cultures and/or drugs needed if there was ever a serious need. I never started treatment myself because it was just a slight wheeze and I don't start things off right away with medication. Just not the way I do things.

Anyways I am sorry to hear of your retic and I surely hope she is not sick.

From: L Bothrops <[email protected]>
To: Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2010 3:18:07 PM
Subject: Re: reptiles

My retic who was housed in the rack above the jcp sounds wheezy, but I can't tell if its from a respiratory problem or a swollen nose, since she has the tendency to push - no matter the housing. I don't expect you to do anything about that, though. He never told me he was getting a sick snake and putting it in the same rack as some of mine. I'm not sure who he's claiming to have lost.
I used to be a lot more involved with his business and care of his animals, but I've since kinda backed out as much as possible. I would do things differently if they were mine..

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]> wrote:

No problem. understandable.

From: L Bothrops <[email protected]>
To: Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 7:18:31 PM
Subject: Re: reptiles

I've known him for 8 or 9 years..
I apologise for being a dick.
I'm sure he's portrayed me in a similar fashion over the past few years.



On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:43 PM, Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]> wrote:
Also forgot to mention to you that the snake was not on deaths door when I took him to Kris'. He was wheezing, yes. But the snake still had good weight and was still eating for me as well as drinking.

And xactly how did you expect me to act? I'm sure I've been portrayed just wonderfully. If you don't mind my asking how long have you known Kris ?




From: L Bothrops <[email protected]>
To: Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, May 19, 2010 8:56:15 PM
Subject: Re: reptiles

Weird. You're not acting at all like I'd expect you to by the way he portrayed you..
So.. you told him how close that guy was to death's door and he observed the poor shape of the snake and still took it?

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]> wrote:
Kris knew the carpet was wheezing, yet still took him and palced him in the same rack as his own snakes. I'm sorry but he should have not done that knowing full wellthe snake was wheezing. I would love to work something out, but everytime I talk to him he puts me at full blame and I just don't see it thatway since he was aware of the situation.

So as for you calling me an asshole, that's fine. Obviously nothing wants to get worked out.


From: L Bothrops <[email protected]>
To: Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 10:49:52 PM
Subject: Re: reptiles

What I know is that animals are dead, and its because of you.

And you refuse to do anything about it.

Who's the asshole, again?

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]> wrote:

If you'd like the whole story feel free to ask, otherwise you can be a complete asshole to someone else.

From: L Bothrops <[email protected]>
To: Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 9:21:45 PM
Subject: Re: reptiles

How about some dead bodies that were once beloved pets?

Kris isn't the only one who keeps kids in that room..

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 7:04 PM, L Bothrops <[email protected]> wrote:
Oooh! I've got a trade offer you wouldn't turn down if you had any sense... ;0


On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Jacqueline Erne <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi there,

I'm sorry I'm not interested in that as a trade. Most likely not interested in any trades. Thanks though

kkevs said:

I have already posted several times explaining the situation, and as to being able or not to physically handle the care of the room I am currently disabled, have been for 6 years, and during the time period the pics were taken I was as I said before, sick as a dog, lying flat on my back, coughing up my lungs and unable to even walk to the bathroom without sweating through a shirt. It eventually progressed into pneumonia. I just spoke with the original poster and she doesn't want anything to do with this, why I cannot say. I also received a carpet python that had an upper resp infection from Ms. Erne which did not respond to antibiotics or extra heat, it subsequently died and transmitted the same infection to several of my animals which also died. Take it as you will, I haven't been avoiding responding to any of these accusations, you just have to scan through the pages to read what I wrote.

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If you are disabled to the point that you mention it as part of your excuse, why did you get the animals in the first place?

So for your neglect Kris as well as trying to pin this down on someone else. Try again. You knew that snake was wheezing, still took it and did not quarantine it. Don't try to blame me for your lack of care and complete neglect.

To claim that all of this occured in 6 weeks time is absolutely CRAZY!!! That poor poor poor hypo boa... the deflated girl that makes me shudder and cry when I see the pictures of her... how do you explain her? Having bred boas for a while now, I can tell you that I have had plenty of boas take THEMSELVES off of food for 6+ weeks at a time, and they NEVER deflated that much... I would imagine that it would take 6+ months of starvation to get to that level of muscle and fat degeneration.... you cannot possibly have us believing that it happened in 6 weeks... and if it did??? what was wrong with that snake to begin with???

Now, shall I bring ANOTHER person in that you've ruined Kris?? Remember Xieke??

I will not begin to explain what the story is with Xieke unless Kris wants to attempt it, or Xieke will come explain - as I know we need more first hand experience here... but Kris - you aren't going to come out of this looking like you have clean hands, because let's face it - you're dirtier than ANY downtown garbage can loving RAT I've ever seen.

Wait wait wait...

Kris- so, were you actually in the house with these animals the whole time? Because that didn't seem to be what you were saying before. Did I misunderstand?

Jackie- if you were 'friends' with Kris enough to know that he and his animals lived in squalor, why would you send an animal to him? You say in your email you think the snake dies because of the conditions he keeps his animals in and the filth they live in, but you still send him and ill snake?

And 'Bothrops' stating "I used to be a lot more involved with his business and care of his animals, but I've since kinda backed out as much as possible. I would do things differently if they were mine.." kind of backs up Kris' claims and makes me think that others besides just Kris should be brought to task for these animals' suffering.

Ask Xeike? She sold me horribly overpriced boas, supposedly was going to breed me female salmon to her male hypo, gave her back with resp, she subsequently died. The Argentine I paid her $600 for never ate once in three months, I tube fed it over and over again, wasted rabbit after rabbit, and she had no explanation, it died. She lost my snake in her house for months trying to breed it, is that what you're talking about? She said she noticed after a few weeks that my snake was wheezing and I even took her sterile saline, hypos, and anti-biotics to use to treat the animal. I'm not the one who told everyone that she had IBD in her collection, you've got me confused with Misty Fox. I've never even interacted with you Kate, so your attack on me personally is just that, a personal attack, I didn't buy the cages Xeike offered me because I felt she'd screwed me on the boas I bought and on getting my snake sick.

As to the charge of starving snakes by not feeding them, I can tell you where and when I was buying rats and in what quantities and I know for sure I wasn't eating them. Snakes go off food all the time, it happens every day n every zoo and every collection of animals that exists.

kkevs said:

Ask Xeike? She sold me horribly overpriced boas, supposedly was going to breed me female salmon to her male hypo, gave her back with resp, she subsequently died. The Argentine I paid her $600 for never ate once in three months, I tube fed it over and over again, wasted rabbit after rabbit, and she had no explanation, it died. She lost my snake in her house for months trying to breed it, is that what you're talking about? She said she noticed after a few weeks that my snake was wheezing and I even took her sterile saline, hypos, and anti-biotics to use to treat the animal. I'm not the one who told everyone that she had IBD in her collection, you've got me confused with Misty Fox. I've never even interacted with you Kate, so your attack on me personally is just that, a personal attack, I didn't buy the cages Xeike offered me because I felt she'd screwed me on the boas I bought and on getting my snake sick.

As to the charge of starving snakes by not feeding them, I can tell you where and when I was buying rats and in what quantities and I know for sure I wasn't eating them. Snakes go off food all the time, it happens every day n every zoo and every collection of animals that exists.

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Wow, do you think it's wise to start accusing OTHER people of having diseases and problems within their own collection when your OWN collection was allowed to get into THAT condition??? Was I wrong when I said that your hypo boa didn't get that thin from 6 weeks of missed feeding?

Yes, this IS getting personal, and I DON'T know you other than the 20 some email responses I'd get from you back a few years back trying to buy my animals, or trade my animals, or get me to buy your animals, or all of that nonsense. Just because YOU don't remember ME doesn't mean I don't remember YOU.

You've made this personal for very many of us. So many of us have dedicated our lives to the wellbeing of these animals, and when you so blatantly destroy the lives of the very animals we work so hard to save and treasure, I know that I PERSONALLY will take it PERSONAL, and make sure that others don't let this get swept under the rug.

Again, how long does it take for a healthy hypo boa to look like a deflated flat tire?

You know what... I only have two snakes, a large boa and a quite sizable corn snake. There have been occasions when I've let them go for six weeks without cleaning the cages, on a normal feeding and watering cycle no less... the cages looked NOTHING like that. They were "dirty", but nothing remotely approaching that. Those cages had been neglected for months, not weeks, if not a year or more... that is an obscene level of filth.

Someone (or everyone) in this situation is not being entirely truthful.

I agree Tom... that's months upon months of blatant neglect! And there is a bigger story behind why all of a sudden the photographer took these after knowing they were kept like this for however long..If that salmon wasn't eating then she should have seen the vet 4 months ago! I don't think you could bring an animal back from that far gone?? But yea she wasted away for WAY WAY TOO LONG!!!

I don't comment much on this site, I'm not here to argue who is right or wrong but in this case I have to say something.



Looks like everyone that Kris deals with gives him a sick snake?? or has issues with him. I have had boa's go off feed for months and never look like that. 6+months of feces in those tanks. I Know first hand life throws curve balls but nothing deserves to suffer like that.



In my opinion and mine only, I don't think Kris deserves to have these elegant creatures in his life...probably not any animals. A simple call could have solved this. Pure and simple case of neglect.



Marty.

thats a whole lot more than 6 weeks......If I stopped cleaning my cages today, they still wouldn’t be that disgusting six weeks from now.. Especially if they had not had a meal. THIS GUY IS FULL OF MORE DOODOO THAN HIS SNAKE CAGES!

Those poor animals. It's really disgusting that you, Kris can come here and give excuses as to why they were left in this condition... I totally understand being sick, but if you are SO sick that you can't even check on them (which I'm not buying) you should have sold these snakes DAY 1! There is absolutely zero reason for any animal to be left in such conditions!

As for the roommate, I DO think this person is partially responsible... I don't care if the animals weren't hers, or even if she was scared of snakes... How can anyone with a soul watch these poor creatures suffer even 1% of this mess without doing something themselves, OR calling someone else to do it? NO EXCUSES! This person is just as guilty, especially going into the room and photographing them and still not even attempting to clean out the cages. I am furious about this... No reason at all for these poor babies to suffer and die as they did. Even if I hated someone to the core, if I saw they had animals in that condition I would help them!

That is obviously not only 6 weeks worth of filth... Anyone who has been keeping snakes for any period of time would know that. That is obviously months upon months, I would go as far to say close to a year on a few of those enclosures. What is the excuse for keeping two large boas in a tub that isn't even big enough for one of them? As for the feces... Those snakes were being fed enough to defecate, so someone was going in there frequently enough to feed... How could you, or anyone ignore the filth?? Just blows my mind that people can be so cruel.

Kris, you knew those animals were in filth and suffering. You didn't find them help. That alone shows your character. I hope karma finds it's way to you and your roommate.

I'm not a snake person personally, but WOW, that is TERRIBLE.
I don't care if you were Sick, those snakes depended on you for their well being and you totally failed them. If you left your room mate responsible for them you still should've been checking on them, and making sure he/she knew what they needed to be doing and were doing it. If you were to ill to check yourself you should've found someone that ACTUALLY cared about animals to, and they would've quickly told you something was NOT Right.
Absolutely appalling conditions for those snakes to be in.

I've had new born Boas that didn't eat for 3 months and never wasted away like some of those animals, and that's without the benefit of being able to get a few meals in them, or even their yolk. I've had BP's go off feed for 8½ months and not waste away like that. 6 weeks is not going to waste a healthy Boa away like that unless it is just full of internal parasites. If I didn't love my critters so much, I'd let their cages go for several months and take pictures the whole time, just to prove those conditions take a long time to get that bad. BTW, are you any relation to Damon... Er, uh, I mean David Beauchemin? That room just totally reminds me of the pictures the law took when they raided his dump of a trailer.

When were those pictures taken showing the conditions of the animals? I notice the emails that were recently posted trying to lay blame, were dated back in May. I can't seem to draw any EXIF data from the pictures to try and tie the time frames together. But if they were recent, I see a 6 month time gap, not 6 weeks.

So I'm curious also...are you accepting the responsibility, or dodging it? Because where I come from, accepting the responsibility is just that. Once you try to share the blame with others, you aren't accepting the responsibility anymore.

you guys and girls have gotten to the root of this, waaaaaayyyyyyy more than 6 weeks, that those animals have been, basically tortured, for a lack of better terms. unacceptable !! and whether or not he accepts responsibility, for me anyway, is not the issue. he is a horrible animal keeper. i was out of commision with a very major back surgery a few years ago, with little to no help mind you, and my animals didnt even touch what those animals went through. unacceptable, and that is animal abuse. here in arizona, sherriff Joe Arpaio would have his ass in tent city