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Bad Guy Beware of Jerry Kruse

Jerry should do that...after all him n Mitch are friends right (olive branch?) Mitch has the knowledge and jerry may have the will to do so and make those snakes a case study. They should be in quarentine and jerrys already said he plans on keeping record of the ordeal (skin/genetics/possible disease) between them they could do something really benefitial to the Z community no matter the outcome. Need recorded instances to be able to share and learn.
 
Christina, read Mitch's "olive branch' again lol. I tried making some monetary bets with some friends about what the outcome would be in 30 days. No one would take em. You can guess what that is about lol.

This thread is not just about Stu and Jerry. It's about everything and experiences people have had with Jerry. So anyone can post about what they have been through. I'm thankful for the BOI. If it wasn't here things would be (At the moment) a lot different between Stu and Jerry. Now let's see what unfolds within the 30 days (Less than that now. Tick Tock Tick Tock) and hope things work out for both parties on the original agreement between the them.
 
Can somebody loan me a benchtop electron scanning microscope. Also a lab full of instruments so I can purify the prospective pathogen. It is all so easy! :eek::shrug01:

Many think ZD is caused by a virus. If so you should go read some papers by Jacobson and others on IBD to see how much effort it would take to characterize a new viral pathogen. It is a non-starter.

Jeff -- asking some lab to screen samples will do nothing since you have no baseline to know whether anything they find is normal. Any screen will likely only look for bacteria (plenty of those around normally) and protozoa/flagellate type organisms. Viruses are a different game due to their much smaller size.

I certainly hope we are not criticizing Stu, or Jerry for that matter, for not being altruistic and taking on the mantel of advancing the science for this potential disease. I would be happy if they would just take good notes on their observations.

Stu -- nice shiny scales on that fifth zonata. Begs the question -- are you going to ship him back int he same box as his litter mates?
 
Jeff-If you are interested in taking up the challenge of ZD research and solving the problem I will galdly send you their sheds and pay for postage.

Rick-I will cross the shipping bridge when I get there. They were shipped to me in the same box. But I will most likely give Jerry the option.
 
Mjay said:
last pic. heres the most recent pic. all doing well and keepin em pretty much the same as jerry recommended to me. thanks for looking.
Click to expand...
anerymatt2.jpg



StuTennyson said:
Just an after thought. Not sure why I didn't think of this sooner. Here is a pic of a 5th neonate from the same clutch, received the same time and kept in exactly the same conditions that so far has not exhibited the condition.
Click to expand...
zonata_stu_01.jpg



Rick Staub said:
Stu -- nice shiny scales on that fifth zonata. Begs the question -- are you going to ship him back int he same box as his litter mates?
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just me, but the animal's scales in the photo above by Matthew just doesn't look as shiny as the later one taken by Stu. Matthew, when was that photo taken? You say it was the most recent pic, but that really doesn't tell us WHEN it was taken.

Would you mind taking another more recent pic showing the scales more clearly and in detail? Just for my own curiosity in this.
 
StuTennyson said:
Hi Kelli-I actually live closer to Boyd. It's just an Azle post office that handles the mail. You are welcome to come visit me any time and see for yourself where I live. Stu
Click to expand...

Hi Stu. Yeah, I know where you live and my point was that you aren't very far from Fort Worth at all and there are some excellent vets around here. If you need recommendations pm me and I will send you a couple that we use. Good luck with your season.
 
WebSlave said:
Would you mind taking another more recent pic showing the scales more clearly and in detail? Just for my own curiosity in this.
Click to expand...

I would love to see one, as well, because this just doesn't look quite right.

Enlargement
 

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KelliH said:
Hi Stu. Yeah, I know where you live and my point was that you aren't very far from Fort Worth at all and there are some excellent vets around here. If you need recommendations pm me and I will send you a couple that we use. Good luck with your season.
Click to expand...

My guess is... Stu doesn't want to spend any more money on this snakes and I understand. Who would want to spend $3100 and then have to pay a vet when you feel the snakes were sent sick to you? Stu just wants them gone and anyone can see something is not right with them.
 
Jeff Schofield said:
Stu, to follow up on my first post in this thread and relate it to recent ones on husbandry: Things that cause problems like this in snakes arent something you can take a pic of and put on the internet,der. They are simply too small. And while we can yell back and forth about proof vs not having a test....had it occured to you to both(Jerry and Stu) to call a lab and have them come out and take random swabs of "clean" and "dirty" caging as well as possibly fecals and other tests to determine if there are conditions that exist in 1 place and not the other? Like I referenced a while ago(before I got sidetracked having to defend myself)it could be that you cages while visibly clean could harbor microbes that could be picked up with a swab, grown in a lab, and help in the definition and possible "cure" of said disease. Having someone pipe in that you are only 20 minutes away from Ft Worth, I'm betting they have such a lab. Call a food processor and find one that has HACCP control and ask what lab they use. It could eliminate possibilities and cut both of your quarantining time. Sadly now BOTH of you have this problem in your collections, how you deal with the problem(not this thread)will go a long way in determining professionalism.
Click to expand...

Heck if you were to swab my door handle I'm sure it contains all kinds of nasty microbes that could be grown in a lab but that's the case with just about anyone's home. Under normal conditions most animals and people have a good immune system that can fend off most infections. I'm not sure how spending a crap load of money on the testing you suggest is going to do any good. If they had a test for zonata disease then that would be worth it but unfortunately they do not.
 
Mitchell Mulks said:
Other things Jerry has done to others that I know to be fact, and hopefully the abused parties will share their tragic encounters with you, are:

1. Going mental on a breeder who didn't sell Jerry the holdback hatchling Jerry wanted.
2. Actively selling a wild-caught temporalis illegally collected from the Pine Barrens.
3. Taking breeders from a Zonata breeding loan, producing babies and not telling the owner of the snakes, and selling those babies and keeping all the money. When confronted about it he promised 'next year' he'd split the clutch, all the while sitting on holdbacks that he never offered to the owner of the snakes to make things right for being a their! Jerry claims everyone is lying about his behavior and that the person whom he ripped of is in fact a good friend, but I've spoken with him and I have his emails to show he dislikes Jerry immensely and feels as though he was stolen from.
4. Went into another person's house, took photos of all his zonata, and played them off as his. He told everyone he was going to have all these different locales of zonata for sale, but the hatchlings he was talking about weren't even his.
5. Screwed his Brother-from-another-mother out of hatchlings from a Purblan milk snake breeding loan (take home message: don't enter into a breeding loan with Jerry).
6. Knowingly sold mutt Baja Mtn kings as pure Martir stock when he found out that Dan Voss had sold him mutts and not pure animals. He was out the money so he dishonestly and under false advertisement did to someone else exactly what had been done to him. The classic part of this is Jerry just responded to a two-year thread where someone asked why he posted a negative BOI thread about Dan Voss. Jerry admitted that it was because two years ago he learned his pure stock was nothing of the sort. Since that time Jerry has unloaded his mutt stock onto others as pure.

Basically, don't interact with the man, because all that do tend to come out of it having been stolen from or lied to. Stu is one of many that have now been Krused, don't make the same mistake all of us have.

Mitch
Click to expand...

A "PURIST" that sells "MUTTS" as "PURE" is a bad guy hypocrite and a liar. I don't know Mitch but i think he is telling the truth.
Good Luck Stu.
 
If someone has reason to attack someones character that's one thing. But certain people shouldn't throw stones when they themselves commited crimes by smuggling illegally obtained zonata and that itself if theft. :NoNo:
 
rattler said:
If someone has reason to attack someones character that's one thing. But certain people shouldn't throw stones when they themselves commited crimes by smuggling illegally obtained zonata and that itself if theft. :NoNo:
Click to expand...

Oh tell us tell more!!! You got my interest...I'm going to the fridge to get another beer. lol
 
Rick Staub said:
Can somebody loan me a benchtop electron scanning microscope. Also a lab full of instruments so I can purify the prospective pathogen. It is all so easy! :eek::shrug01:

Many think ZD is caused by a virus. If so you should go read some papers by Jacobson and others on IBD to see how much effort it would take to characterize a new viral pathogen. It is a non-starter.

Jeff -- asking some lab to screen samples will do nothing since you have no baseline to know whether anything they find is normal. Any screen will likely only look for bacteria (plenty of those around normally) and protozoa/flagellate type organisms. Viruses are a different game due to their much smaller size.

I certainly hope we are not criticizing Stu, or Jerry for that matter, for not being altruistic and taking on the mantel of advancing the science for this potential disease. I would be happy if they would just take good notes on their observations.

Stu -- nice shiny scales on that fifth zonata. Begs the question -- are you going to ship him back int he same box as his litter mates?
Click to expand...

Well, lets not do it and see how many times the disease wipes out collections. Ya, smart. If no one knows what causes it WHY NOT start from the beginning and eliminate possibilities. Baseline? To start with Jerrys healthy zonata, that is the baseline. Checking swabs at every point of contact between these 2 guys could show different bugs and combinations along the way. Is there something that is present at Stu's that isnt at Jerry's? If so, thats where you start, pretty simple. Jerry is a zonata breeder with a website, Stu wants to get into Zonata and will have $3100 soon to play with. Mitch wants to be a Zonata expert, so there are 3 people to share costs, it is tax deductible! You dont need a whole lab, labs are already set up to study such things. Altruism? How about professionalism? If these guys want to make money off selling or studying zonata why not have them pay for it?? Not solely of course, pass the hat. The idea of shed skins or to sample 1 guys place and not the other is foolish. Somewhere in between lies the CAUSE of the disease.
 
Show Me said:
Heck if you were to swab my door handle I'm sure it contains all kinds of nasty microbes that could be grown in a lab but that's the case with just about anyone's home. Under normal conditions most animals and people have a good immune system that can fend off most infections. I'm not sure how spending a crap load of money on the testing you suggest is going to do any good. If they had a test for zonata disease then that would be worth it but unfortunately they do not.
Click to expand...

I dont think you understand, looking for causes for the disease and and defining the disease are 2 different things. Its not a crap load of money considering that thousands of $$ these guys will be making on the backs of Zonata!
 
Jeff Schofield said:
Well, lets not do it and see how many times the disease wipes out collections. Ya, smart. If no one knows what causes it WHY NOT start from the beginning and eliminate possibilities. Baseline? To start with Jerrys healthy zonata, that is the baseline. Checking swabs at every point of contact between these 2 guys could show different bugs and combinations along the way. Is there something that is present at Stu's that isnt at Jerry's? If so, thats where you start, pretty simple. Jerry is a zonata breeder with a website, Stu wants to get into Zonata and will have $3100 soon to play with. Mitch wants to be a Zonata expert, so there are 3 people to share costs, it is tax deductible! You dont need a whole lab, labs are already set up to study such things. Altruism? How about professionalism? If these guys want to make money off selling or studying zonata why not have them pay for it?? Not solely of course, pass the hat. The idea of shed skins or to sample 1 guys place and not the other is foolish. Somewhere in between lies the CAUSE of the disease.
Click to expand...

I am sure Stu worked hard to save $3100 to purchase these snakes and definitely has better ways to spend his money. Mitch is already a zonata expert. And if you think 3 people can share the cost to fund what you are proposing then you really do not know what you are talking about.

Jeff Schofield said:
I dont think you understand, looking for causes for the disease and and defining the disease are 2 different things. Its not a crap load of money considering that thousands of $$ these guys will be making on the backs of Zonata!
Click to expand...

These guys? Mitch and I have been giving zonata away for years while spending our own dollars doing natural history research on this species.

You need to stop digging!
 
Rick, You are a respected professional.

Jeff...? Jeff Schofield has beed exposed for sending snakes to buyers in gym socks he pulled out of his laundry hamper --- and with holes large enough for the snakes to escape, get out of of the shipping box, and get stuck to the tape on the same box.

For some comedy (you really can't make this up!) see this:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42452

I'd just ignore him if I was you.
 
Show Me said:
My guess is... Stu doesn't want to spend any more money on this snakes and I understand. Who would want to spend $3100 and then have to pay a vet when you feel the snakes were sent sick to you? Stu just wants them gone and anyone can see something is not right with them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Stu has other snakes though, and he might need a vet for one of those someday.
 
Rick Staub said:
I am sure Stu worked hard to save $3100 to purchase these snakes and definitely has better ways to spend his money. Mitch is already a zonata expert. And if you think 3 people can share the cost to fund what you are proposing then you really do not know what you are talking about.

If he spends that much money on snakes it sounds like he is planning on making it back and more in Zonata. YES, he and Jerry and Mitch should pass a hat.

These guys? Mitch and I have been giving zonata away for years while spending our own dollars doing natural history research on this species.

You need to stop digging!
Click to expand...

Mitch is studying Zonata right? They are the conduit which he is cutting his teeth to make a living, right? Why not ask him to kick back a portion? If someone wants to pat themselves on the back for his work with Zonata why not? What better way to continue to be a expert? Is he bettering himself or bettering Zonata?
 
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