breeding

Robby,

I do not intend any offense here and I understand you're still learning but statements like this-

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">thats what i am planing on doing
or im gana find breeders that have probed them because i read thats the sure way to tell
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Just tell Me (and possibly others) that you're simply not ready to breed animals.

I think we skipped a few steps here with you, I'll briefly run down a few things you need to do...

1.) Learn about basic husbandry for the animals in question. If you probe a blue tongue skink, you'll simply shove a probe straight through and rip the reproductive organs to shreds. The anal muscles of lizards are too strong to allow you to probe an &nbsp;animal that isn't sedated and that is enormously risky. Suggesting it tells me just one thing... &nbsp;

That you have no idea how to even keep this animal healthy much less encourage propagation in any responsible manner.

2.) SHOULD you breed an animal. This is essentially a moral issue that many adult breeders seem to skip at times but it may be the most important one. There is the basic &quot;Does this animal need to be bred, is it reasonable to do so?&quot; that should come initially. Pretty much everyone will agree about say... Iguanas. Many will agree &nbsp;about Burms, sulcatta torts, etc... They simply do not need to be bred. There are already higher captive populations than there is demand (to some degree or another in the listed species) &nbsp;and you'll find yourself with more neonates than you can place.

The second part of &quot;Should I breed this animal&quot; &nbsp;comes with the specific animals. As a herper you have something or a moral obligation to maintain captive species in as healthy a manner as possible, both the individual animals you own and the species as a whole you do this by having a good understanding of bloodlines, genetics and quality. Breeding animals is not simply a matter of getting babies, it's about getting the best, healthiest most desireable babies possible. Not from a financial standpoint but from understanding that your animals represent a portion of the &nbsp;total population of these &nbsp;animals in captivity. You want to re-enforce desireable traits and habits and weed out bad ones. This means you do not inbreed (Line breeding is a bit different, outbreeding every few generations at a minimum is line breeding, never buying another animal and just crossing the offspring for multiple generations is inbreeding), you do not cross animals without a specific goal in mind and you DO NOT go and breed animals together when they represent &quot;A male and a female I got for free&quot; simply to breed. Without getting into my ethical thoughts on morphs and hybrids (All I'm going to say is that I don't care for either), crossing animals simply because they're avaliable will not represent a mature, educated or positive attitude towards the species.

3.) Basic Husbandry Again. After you understand what it takes to maintain healthy animals in positive conditions and have determined that it would be appropriate to breed the species, you need to decide if it's something you personally are capable of doing correctly. Note that &quot;Doing correctly&quot; is not the same as &quot;doing&quot;

I'm not so old that I've forgotten what it's like to be a minor, limited funds, limited room or permission with your parents, limited respect in a lot of instances from &nbsp;the &quot;Old Timers&quot; all of which make it harder to get started... &nbsp;But it's not ethically right to dive into it unprepared. Something that always confused me about a lot of people looking to adopt animals that have a decent market (Blue Tongue Skinks, beardies- they don't show up abandoned often simply because they are both desireable species that are currently popular) is this question... If you can't afford the animal, how can you possibly afford the needed care elements?! It has always made me enormously suspicious of the level of care an animal will get if the new owner needs a discount because they can't afford a $75 lizard. Again, I know it's rough being young and it can be hard to work around in order to fufill your personal goals... But the only way you turn into one of the established individuals or have any personal success is by doing it right even if it's not as easy or you don't get instantaneous gratification of your desires.

4.) After the knowledge is present, the ethical descision, the proper understanding of the technical aspect and your &nbsp;dedication to go about it properly are all in place, THEN and ONLY THEN do you &nbsp;even aquire animals to get started with.

5.) In the unlikely event that you seem to be catching up to the expenses of keeping the animals, start thinking about branching out or merchendising and how to go about selling animals. Very... very few people ever get to step five. I know I certainly haven't and probably never will... I'm lucky if any offspring even pay for about 1/8th the food bill itself much less the other aspects and costs. I subsist because of a love of the animals as a hobby (and as a science for me) not because of any potential gain of an &nbsp;economic nature.


I'm saying it once more, just because it bears repeating and because &nbsp;you gave me a bit of evidence...

First you need to know the animals, then you need to decide if you SHOULD, then you need to know that you are capable of with your avaliable resources, then obtain the animals, finally figure out what you'll be doing as a dealer.

I don't like having to point something like this out, since it's not particularly flattering and I do admire the desire to learn but... The fact that you thought you could probe skinks shows something about you. It shows that your knowledge and education on pretty basic issues has a long way to go before I'd even advise you to get an animal as a pet, much less a breeding project. What you need to do... Is go buy about eighty books. &nbsp;Then read them. Then come to live sources of information. Most of all... Pay ATTENTION &nbsp;to the advice you ask for, EVEN IF IT ISN'T &nbsp;WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR! People really do get tired of &nbsp;repeating the same things over and over without any apparant weight being given to their words. Asking the questions is only half of the process, understanding the answers is even more important.

Sometimes, people may even give you the answer you need rather than the one you want. I'm about to do it right now-

Stop thinking about breeding animals, don't consider the possibility in any manner, forget about neonates, forget about sales and money and paying for their own food. It's not what you need to do right now.

I sound a bit like Yoda when I say this but... When you are ready for the answers, you won't have to ask the questions.

You may not understand that right now Robby, but you will.

ok
guys in my anitial(sp ceck) post i said i was looking for a speacies or speacieses (gram. check) that were farly easy to breed and i was going to go read up on them before i did any thing
then i was told to single out speacies that i liked
but i am not ready yet
i know his
i am going to read more and more until i can answer questions on them with ease
i cant do so yet
you guys are missing my point
i am not missing yours
i dont meen to sound like i am its just the way i come off
i will not go out and breed for the hell of it without knowing the first step
i meen if i did that i could be breeding beardies and expecting live birth who knows(its just an examle)
im not stupid
i dont meen to come off sounding dumb
i know the responsabilities
but somebody just posted about the breeding of animals and the need of it
im not going to breed leopard geckos am i
those are way over bred
so if your gana tell me to pick a speacies that needs to be bred go talk to the leo breeders
i want to keep a few animals and learn about them
and breed them to pay for the start up costs of keeping them
and that should take a few years depending on what i diside
to go with
i would like to aventually use the money i make to pay for the costs of reptile shows gas and keeping the animals.
but i am going to as you all say get a real job.
i posted to get suggestions on speacies
not to be told i wont be able to do it
or i dont know enough
i know i dont know enough and i have been told by alot of people i wont make it
i dont want to hear that
thats like telling the next bill gates he is a nobody and to keep dreaming am i wrong
i hope i ahave clarified you all
i will answer any questions you may have just please dont push me into a corrner because i tend to push back
and i dont meen to say things when im pushing because its not worth saying them
thanx
robby
p.s. im going to keep researching i am already so please...
stop telling me i dono enough

Maybe I'm just wording it wrong.

If there's anyone reading this who thinks they can pound the needed concepts into Robby's head, please give it a try, because the attempts made by everyone thus far haven't &nbsp;seemed to have any effect.

oops
hey seamus please post the pm i sent you i ment to post it

You know this seems almost to be our old friend Randy Kuehn, I apologise (ouch) to Randy if this really is not him. However be that as it may, I think you should try for some nice ceramic frogs, they come in many shiny pretty colors, or maybe some little stuffed lizards, both options are easy to care for and you should have no trouble with them. The point is that you are not listening and are in no way ready for the course of action you trying to embark on. Listen to these people there is a huge amount of knowledge to be gained here is you will just really listen.

ok
all my posts are about trying to listen
i dont understand what you are telling me
my post asked what speacies are resonably easy to breed
i was told not to ask for the ease of breeding but to go with speacies i found intresting and personally liked
witch i said were bts and/or pts
then i was told that i shouldnt go into breeding for profit
because there isnt much
witch in fact i know i worded what i was trying to say wrong
i ment i want to make enough from breeding to pay for the costs of my animals
i dont know what else im beeing told
if any one breeds blue or pinks please let me know i would lke to get some info from experianced people

Robby
Bts and Pts are specific care animals[ hell man all animals are]
They all need a certain amount of specific care to procure.
Its that simple , what everybody is telling you is these are live animals not dollar signs.
These are not dogs and cats
What it boils down to is this
There is no quick fix on anything you are looking at, from geckos to snakes to skinks or any herp
Easy to breed animals?!?!?! There are none that are EASY TO BREED,without 1st learning the habits ,conditions the animal needs and I could go on and on....
The pictus I breed some would say are easy to breed, but did you know w/out the proper supplimentation the females can lay themselves to death. The eggs of pictus are hard and very thin =easy to crack or break. Two males together can quite possibly hurt themselves[territorial fights]
Not enough food and the females will eat each others tail.
Leaving the male with the females can make him think about breeding and not eating.
leaving the male with the females gives you permantly scarred females[on the head man].
The eggs take about 60 days to hatch at 82 degrees.
Even the juvies need to be seperated when starting to mature.
In a short time you can wind up with a hundred geckos [can you cage and feed them all?]
They need food everynight [laying females and babies]This part is my opinion.
I have one female that I have had for six years and she still lays eggs.
Nobody is trying to discourage you just set you straight.
Even with an easy animal such as pictus geckos there are too many variables that can go wrong.
I have been doing pictus for a while now and things still go wrong from time to time, I would like to say I got it down but I am still learning[38 yrs old].
Its all trial and error and the learning process gos on and on

Meant goes on and on <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

i know they arent dollar signs
im not looking to make a million dollars
i know and have been saying since the 1st post that im looking to get a taste of the real world
and some suggestions on breeding
you all said to pick somthing &nbsp;that i my self had interest in
and i did
i know its costly to feed animals
i want to breed to make extra money to pay for those costs
along with moeing my lawn washing peoples cars
i do almost any thing to get money to pay for my animals
i am going to do research on them even after i get them
by the way any one know of any books on bts or pts?