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'Serpent-Handling' West Virginia Pastor Dies From Snake Bite

and now it's religion.

Wrong, it's not "religion" I'm attacking, it's a dangerous and stupid practice that I am saying is stupid. Everybody else voiced their opinion that "Oh it's OK because it's their belief" and now I am voicing my opinion that it's not OK because it's stupid. Not only do people suffer (as shown), but how well do you think these geniuses take care of the snakes in between magic shows?
 
I don't have a problem with you (or anybody else) speaking out against the practice...but you had to go the extra step and say that it's a very stupid religion. Contextually, it might not be that big a deal to many; but it's just one more hashmark on the list of times you didn't have enough sense to try to not to be offensive.
 
Mike,

I'm not for the this practice either, but I do support religious beliefs. I try to take an understanding view of other people situations. After all, eww I like snakes as a lot of people say to me. My own dad donates to fight our rights to keep our reptiles ever since I began.

I do agrre with your point that the care of these animals are probably subpar at best since they may not be experience in the keeping of them. They may also be WC wich in my opinion makes things worse.

Religious freedom is a touchy subject and I try not to cross the line, but dance on it closely

Jacob
 
I don't have a problem with you (or anybody else) speaking out against the practice...but you had to go the extra step and say that it's a very stupid religion. Contextually, it might not be that big a deal to many; but it's just one more hashmark on the list of times you didn't have enough sense to try to not to be offensive.

My point is that a lot of times religion is used as a security blanket to defend ridiculous things. If a teacher at a school taught his students that it was safe to handle venomous snakes, and the school board approved of this, you would immediately agree that the teacher, the school, and the practice were stupid. But since its a religion, we had better respect them no matter what they do?
 
You're missing point, or just intent on defending something that I already agreed to.
 
My point is that a lot of times religion is used as a security blanket to defend ridiculous things. If a teacher at a school taught his students that it was safe to handle venomous snakes, and the school board approved of this, you would immediately agree that the teacher, the school, and the practice were stupid. But since its a religion, we had better respect them no matter what they do?

Just like you can disapprove of a person's actions without attacking him as a person, you can disapprove of this practice without attacking the religion.
For instance, as a nurse, I disapproved of groups who did not believe in medical care for religious reasons, if their kids got sick and they did not take the kids to a doctor, but it was that specific practice and not the whole religion that I had a problem with.
 
Just like you can disapprove of a person's actions without attacking him as a person, you can disapprove of this practice without attacking the religion.

But it's not the person, it's his religion that promotes this. He's not the only snake handling preacher, is he? Somebody else mentioned that snake handling has been practiced for thousands of years. I disapprove of religions that practice dangerous, archaic practices that go against modern knowledge and basic common sense. There are religions that mutilate the genitals of infants, there are religions that promote violence against other religions, and there are religions that tell their followers to put themselves in blatant danger in the name of faith. I show my disapproval by voicing my thoughts that they are stupid for doing these things.

I know this is all just my opinion and I never presented it as anything but that. I'm doing the same thing that you guys are defending- expressing my beliefs. And I did it in no way that violates any rules of these boards, so i'm not sure why Mr. Moore is so upset.
 
I know this is all just my opinion and I never presented it as anything but that. I'm doing the same thing that you guys are defending- expressing my beliefs. And I did it in no way that violates any rules of these boards, so i'm not sure why Mr. Moore is so upset.

calling an entire group of people stupid is akin to name calling, which is against the rules of the site. I believe Harald was being courteous warning you that you are treading a fine line here. Does that clarify?

edit - we can take this to PM if you have any further questions so this doesn't go off topic
 
I don't beleive that this has gone too far off topic. After all, the article was about a religious act that is controversial to say the least. I'm not defending anybody here, but everybody has their own beliefs and a right to express them. However, this is a privately owned web page and there are rules to follow with certain paramaters that we can express our opinions within. This is for a good reason and to protect everybody.

Mike, you have every right to have strong feelings against this practice, many battle for our right to own venomous snakes. There are some people who agree with handling like this, but I am not one. I do have strong feelings against it as a dangerous act, but I do not have(nor does anybody else here) a higher power to say what is truly right and wrong religiously speaking.

I too, in my first post made the same comment and called them a name for calling it a poisonous snake. I was corrected by both Lucille and Shadera for this and I believe they are correct in their statements.

There are many religions, and many of them are ideas from the same book to say the least. Who has the right to say one view of it is the correct view. What proof lays in front of everybody to make it obvious. The best solution I can think of is to respect different views of the same ideas which sometimes are extreme and sometimes just slight variations of another idea.

Jacob
 
An interesting case, if anyone has time to read it, is the Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. Hialeah.
Here, a city council initiated ordinances outlawing animal sacrifice. The target of these ordinances were the practitioners of the Santeria faith, whose religious rituals involved such sacrifice.
It is in my opinion worth reading the case itself, and the discussion of religious constitutional rights.

Handling venomous snakes and animal sacrifice as part of religious observance may not be our cup of tea, but care must be exercised so that the ways we treat those who are different that we are do not come back and bite us.
 
That is very interesting. I found it on wiki with just an outline here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Lukumi_Babalu_Aye_v._City_of_Hialeah

Text followed is copied from wiki from above said link.
"Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah, 508 U.S. 520 (1993),[1] was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that an ordinance passed in Hialeah, Florida, forbidding the "unnecessar[y]" killing of "an animal in a public or private ritual or ceremony not for the primary purpose of food consumption", was unconstitutional. The law was enacted soon after the city council of Hialeah learned that the Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, which practiced Santería, was planning on locating there. Santeria is a religion practiced in the Americas by the descendants of Africans; many of its rituals involve animal sacrifice. The church filed a lawsuit in United States district court for the Southern District of Florida, seeking for the Hialeah ordinance to be declared unconstitutional.

Adhering to Employment Division v. Smith, the lower courts deemed the law to have a legitimate and rational government purpose and therefore upheld the enactment. The Supreme Court, however, held that the ordinances were neither neutral nor generally applicable: rather, they applied exclusively to the church. Because the law was targeted at Santería, the Court held, it was not subject to an undemanding rational basis test. Rather, the nature of the case was held to mandate a standard of strict scrutiny: state action had to be justified by a compelling governmental interest, and be narrowly tailored to advance that interest. Because the ordinance suppressed more religious conduct than was necessary to achieve its stated ends, it was deemed unconstitutional, with Justice Anthony Kennedy stating in the decision, “religious beliefs need not be acceptable, logical, consistent or comprehensible to others in order to merit First Amendment protection”.[2]

Somewhat similarly in 2009, a freedom of religion case related to animal sacrifice was taken to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in the case of Jose Merced, President Templo Yoruba Omo Orisha Texas, Inc., v. City of Euless.[3] The court ruled that the Merced case of the freedom of exercise of religion was meritorious and prevailing and that Merced was entitled under the Texas Religious Freedom and Restoration Act (TRFRA) to an injunction preventing the city of Euless, Texas from enforcing its ordinances that burdened his religious practices relating to the use of animals[4], (see Tex. Civ. Prac. & Rem. Code § 110.005(a)(2)) without the court having to reach his claims under the First and Fourteenth Amendments."




I'm sure that this is just an outline, but is very interesting and I agree with their decision.

Jacob
 
I dont have any issues with them being allowed to do it, i just said it was stupid. If i posted pics of me freehandling my canebrakes i would expect somebody to call me stupid too.
 
I'm sure I would be thinking it. I have seen people free handle Cobras in person and almost walked away. I even said told him he didn't have to do that to show me. It was my first on hands experience with any cobras. I would think it, but as long as you don't endanger a bystander, why is it my right to say you can't do that. I don't agree with the practice at all, but as a religious standpoint, it's not my right to dictate that that practice is wrong.

We all take calculated risks in our lives. Driving a car is a calculated risk. Not too camparable to an unneccesary(my opinion) risk, but still a risk that people take. Working with hots even in a safe manner can be risky, but I have chosen to take that risk.

Jacob
 
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