Bad Guy Washingtonpost77

I have now "done two deals" with Shaun Cox, on here as Washingtonpost77, and regret both.


The first was last summer when he purchased a hatchling spotted turtle from me. After NUMEROUS emails asking me questions on everything he could read in a care forum (which I politely answered each), he paid me through Paypal, but before I could ship the turtle he demanded a refund. No explanation. I refunded his money and vowed not to do business with him again.


Well, fast forward to a week ago and I see that Shaun is selling some spotted turtles on another forum. He posted ads, several ads. I responded to one on an adult female. He was asking $250 and I offered him $150. He agreed, saying "I will accept your offer but I'm still considering an offer from another person."


I should have know right then to cease dealing with him. I responded, "You said you would accept my offer. I feel like you're using me to get more out of someone else."


He responded, "I will accept your offer. Can you send your payment tomorrow?" To which I said, "That's weird. I want to pay you now to guarantee the purchase."


In the meantime, I hear from a friend of mine that was also emailing Shaun about the same turtle that Shaun told him he had a buyer, but he would sell to my friend for $200. Obviously, he struck a deal with me but was trying to get more out of someone else. My friend did not bite, and Shaun FINALLY gave me his Paypal address.


I sent him the money. I also emailed him a shipping label Monday morning at 7:30 a.m. that I paid for. He was then supposed to ship the turtle that Monday night. But at about 6 p.m. my time, he emailed and said he neglected to ship it but would ship it on Wednesday.


Fast forward to tonight and I get this email from Shaun:


"Curtis,


I have decided not to sell the female spotted at this time and will issue a refund to you if that is okay with you. Let me know if you have questions."


I do have question, Shaun. How, in good conscience, can you "sell" me a turtle, take my payment, force me to exchange 16 emails back and forth with you and then not send me what I paid for? Then, how come you tell me to let you know if I have questions and when I email you several times asking for an explanation, you won't respond?


Shaun, Baller77, Washingtonpost77, whoever he goes by, is a wishy-washy seller and buyer. I would NEVER trust him again. I still have not been refunded the money I spent on my shipping label. I still would like the turtle more than my refund.


I have never and will never treat a customer the way Shaun has treated me. I go above and beyond to be courteous and helpful during a transaction, even answering questions answered in my ads and in care sheets. Please, learn from my mistake and DO NOT do business with Shaun Cox.

To clarify, my friend I referred to is Phil Luciano, user PhilthyTurtle. He will verify that part.

Hello fauna, I am the friend Curtis was speaking of in this statement. At the time I did not know Curtis was purchasing this spotted until after I offered $125 and Shaun countered with $200. That same day I learned he accepted Curtis offer.

boxspottedturtle said:

I have now "done two deals" with Shaun Cox, on here as Washingtonpost77, and regret both.


The first was last summer when he purchased a hatchling spotted turtle from me. After NUMEROUS emails asking me questions on everything he could read in a care forum (which I politely answered each), he paid me through Paypal, but before I could ship the turtle he demanded a refund. No explanation. I refunded his money and vowed not to do business with him again.


I should have know right then to cease dealing with him. I responded, "You said you would accept my offer. I feel like you're using me to get more out of someone else."

Shaun, Baller77, Washingtonpost77, whoever he goes by, is a wishy-washy seller and buyer. I would NEVER trust him again. I still have not been refunded the money I spent on my shipping label. I still would like the turtle more than my refund.

I have never and will never treat a customer the way Shaun has treated me. I go above and beyond to be courteous and helpful during a transaction, even answering questions answered in my ads and in care sheets. Please, learn from my mistake and DO NOT do business with Shaun Cox.

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There is an old saying... 1st time shame on me, second time shame on you. It may not be 100% accurate in this case because no money was exchanged in your first experience but I'm sure you get my point. I in no means mean to reflect any blame towards you, only to post a reminder to others to follow your gut. I know sometimes it's hard to pass up what looks to be a good deal but a transaction can only be as good as the parties involved so your paying in one way or another in the long run. If all statements are factual, I don't see why sellers remorse should be at your cost. I hope you get what your owed, which in my opinion besides shipping cost includes at least an sincere apology .

I notice Washingtonpost77's last log on was prior to this BOI being posted. Have you made Shaun Cox aware of this thread? Please keep us posted in regards to the status of your refund.

I gave Shaun the opportunity to follow through with our deal before I posted a review. I did hear back from him after I posted this review. He first said he paid more originally for the turtle than what we agrees on and I paid him and after I said that wasn't my concern and that he should honor out deal, he changed his tune saying that he didn't want to sell it in the first place because he keeps them as pets. This last statement in direct contradiction to his multiple for sale postings in the classifieds at TT.

I update on the resolution of all this.

seems to mee u both lowballed him and he changed his mind whats the big problem you got a refund correct

burmbreeder5 said:

seems to mee u both lowballed him and he changed his mind whats the big problem you got a refund correct

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Seriously??? Dude accepted the deal while also trying to be sneaky and use it as leverage to get more from someone else, buyer paid for a shipping label, then was told that the seller changed his mind and you say, "What's the big problem"?

Wow. If you think that's good business practices then I feel sorry for your customers, if you have any.

i dont think its good business in fact it isnt good business, he told him he was considering another offer he refunded the money he didnt keep it which would have been much worse to me this is a non issue he and his friend both offerd him as i see it insulting offers 125 for animal listed 250 cmon really

burmbreeder5 said:

i dont think its good business in fact it isnt good business, he told him he was considering another offer he refunded the money he didnt keep it which would have been much worse to me this is a non issue he and his friend both offerd him as i see it insulting offers 125 for animal listed 250 cmon really

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Which the seller accepted. In a community like this your word is your bond, and if someone can't be trusted to follow through on a deal (and the OP doubly verified that this guy can't.) then the rest of the community needs to know. That is NOT an non-issue.

Honestly, I'm not sure the seller has advanced to the level of playing buyers against each other. Sounds like he simply accepted an offer too quickly. However, once paid for, the animal is off the market.
IMO, any time you have to ask more than once for permission to pay someone, walk away.

Noelle

burmbreeder5 said:

seems to mee u both lowballed him and he changed his mind whats the big problem you got a refund correct

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I don't know enough about the turtle market to advise if these offers can be considered lowballing but have done enough transactions in & outside of the hobby to understand how things work & know I don't have to accept anything I don't consider fair. I could almost over look the seller getting cold feet or finding a reason preventing him the sale of this animal if he only verbally agreed to a deal, which he did by not only speaking but also took the next step providing his papal information to the buyer. Once a buyer completes there end of the deal & the seller accept payment it's becomes the sellers responsibility to fulfill his part of the transaction. If for any reason the transaction cant be completed by the seller it should fall on to make sure all cost to the buyer is reimbursed. In my opinion the shipping paid falls under that cost.

Durante said:

I don't know enough about the turtle market to advise if these offers can be considered lowballing but have done enough transactions in & outside of the hobby to understand how things work & know I don't have to accept anything I don't consider fair. I could almost over look the seller getting cold feet or finding a reason preventing him the sale of this animal if he only verbally agreed to a deal, which he did by not only speaking but also took the next step providing his papal information to the buyer. Once a buyer completes there end of the deal & the seller accept payment it's becomes the sellers responsibility to fulfill his part of the transaction. If for any reason the transaction cant be completed by the seller it should fall on to make sure all cost to the buyer is reimbursed. In my opinion the shipping paid falls under that cost.

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Exactly right. This is not an issue of "low balling." (Which, could be argued all day long if the seller was overpricing the turtle or I low balled him.) The real issue is that the seller agreed to a deal, accepted the deal and my money and then changed his mind and weaseled out of the deal.

Now, burmbreeder5, I don't know where you're from, but as others have said, in this hobby where 99% of deals are made sight unseen over the Internet, there has to be a trust that when a deal is struck and money is exchanged, that the seller deals in good faith, delivers a healthy animal as described, and, oh yeah, DELIVERS the animal.

I don't know about you, but when I pay for something, I expect to receive it. Plain and simple.

true once money is sent animal is off market , we are only seeing his side not the sellers not that he has any real input he was wrong period but he didnt do that much wrong other than busting a deal which was a bad deal imo

boxspottedturtle said:

Exactly right. This is not an issue of "low balling." (Which, could be argued all day long if the seller was overpricing the turtle or I low balled him.) The real issue is that the seller agreed to a deal, accepted the deal and my money and then changed his mind and weaseled out of the deal.

Now, burmbreeder5, I don't know where you're from, but as others have said, in this hobby where 99% of deals are made sight unseen over the Internet, there has to be a trust that when a deal is struck and money is exchanged, that the seller deals in good faith, delivers a healthy animal as described, and, oh yeah, DELIVERS the animal.

I don't know about you, but when I pay for something, I expect to receive it. Plain and simple.

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Curtis, I agree with you. I was curious as to Laura's point of view because I disagree, and found this thread about her dealings: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214280

burmbreeder5 said:

true once money is sent animal is off market , we are only seeing his side not the sellers not that he has any real input he was wrong period but he didnt do that much wrong other than busting a deal which was a bad deal imo

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You're still missing the point. It doesn't matter whether it was a bad deal for the seller or not, he accepted it and accepted payment. Your continued defense of him is only reflecting poorly on you.

burmbreeder5 said:

true once money is sent animal is off market , we are only seeing his side not the sellers not that he has any real input he was wrong period but he didnt do that much wrong other than busting a deal which was a bad deal imo

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Ethics must not be a strong suit of yours?

If the seller did not want to accept the offer, he should have simply said, "no thanks," and moved on. Not take the money, arrange shipping, then suddenly back out.

It was good on the seller's part to refund the money, but still the whole thing is a little less than stellar business practice.

Especially since Burmbreeder/Artie Davidson has ignored requests to amend his Full Name and continues to post under his Girlfriends... Not to be trusted.

burmbreeder5 said:

true once money is sent animal is off market , we are only seeing his side not the sellers not that he has any real input he was wrong period but he didnt do that much wrong other than busting a deal which was a bad deal imo

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The only thing you said that makes any sense is we have not heard the sellers & side of the story... The sellers input does matter, he may have a total different story or reasoning that could easily change everything, it has happened before here in the BOI. If the statements are factual how can you say he didn't do much wrong with a straight face. I don't care if shipping cost of the animal was cheap, all that matters is the buyer paid it & is now out that money because of the seller. A failed business transaction is usually the topic of most if not all bad BOI posts. Bad BOI posts act as a warning to others of the actions people took after making a deal. The fact you wouldn't have made the deal has no relevance.

you guys are amazing this is why boi is bs dont come at me for this first off you have no idea when he sent the money vs when the deal was made if he agreed to sell the turtle on monday and money wasnt sent till friday is it still his fault for not selling it to him. what is the time frame of whole deal ?

as far as my dealing from that poast thread o please enough already lucille


and for the record i dont know either person that this thread is about

If for any reason the transaction cant be completed by the seller it should fall on to make sure all cost to the buyer is reimbursed. In my opinion the shipping paid falls under that cost.

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The seller does not owe the buyer anything for the shipping. The buyer didn't pay him for shipping...the buyer sent him a shipping label to use. The buyer gets that refund from the shipping service.