Abandoning the USA?

Has anyone here ever given any SERIOUS thought about just pulling up stakes and moving to another country? Done any investigation about which country would be a serious consideration of relocating to?

Honestly, I just don't like the direction the USA is going in lately, and I don't see it changing for the better without bloodshed.

Probably just fantasizing about moving to a tropical paradise somewhere that really doesn't exist, but the thoughts have been creeping into my mind lately.

I've spent a lots of time in 'tropical paradises'. We have visited the Turks and Caicos every year since before they had roads, as well as the BVI, Anguilla, Bonaire, and Curacao. Just got back from 2 weeks in the Cayman Islands last Friday. Note that these are the 'safe and secure' islands. They are warm, friendly, and beautiful, as long as they know you're leaving. Once you get friendly with the locals and expatriates, you see that we have one of the least corrupt governments in the Western Hemisphere. Tax havens, yes. But the government of these places tends to surprise American property owners with random fees (which can be in the 6 digits). You can pay, or leave. You have no rights to trial, bail, or even an attorney. I have so many stories, stuff Americans wouldn't believe. I don't do conspiracies, or even theories; I only speak of what I've seen.
I will admit I know nothing of the other side of the world. Maybe Fiji? Hawaii is beautiful, but that doesn't really solve your problem.

Noelle

That's pretty sad, really, to think that what we have here is as good as it is going to get anywhere on this big ball of dirt.

Has it yet become just as tough getting out of the USA as it is getting in?

It's extremely easy to get out. Show your passport and hand them the bags. Getting in is a bit harder, immigration wise. They'll turn to one of the kids and quickly ask what country we've been to, or what their middle name is. And all the passports have chips in them now; the first time you use it (even for kids) they put you into a facial recognition system. Crazy to have them say hold your toddler up to the camera!
Customs is easier. A beagle smells your bag, and that's about it. This last trip, I bought a bottle of liquid barbecue sauce, and forgot to put it in my checked bag. Got all the way from from Cayman to St. Louis with 8 oz. of liquid in my purse. TSA, not as sharp as immigration.

Noelle

This just happened last month in Providenciales, T & C. These two wealthy Americans, totally unrelated, were found one day apart, each with a single 9 mm bullet in their luggage. They were thrown into a small concrete cell, until they posted bail, then charges were dropped. An 80 year old surgeon, and a 60 yr old female real estate agent. They are home, their cash is not.

CASES DROPPED AGAINST AMERICAN TOURISTS CHARGED WITH AMMUNITION POSSESSION
By Hayden Boyce, Editor-in-Chief
• Fri, May 17, 2013
The cases against the two American tourists, Cathy Davis and Horace Norrell, who were charged with ammunition possession in the Turks and Caicos Islands, have been dropped.

A press release from the office of the Director of Public Prosecution Joanne Meloche on Friday May 17th, said: “The Royal Turks and Caicos Islands Police Force have conducted a thorough investigation into this matter. After a review of the available evidence and taking into account all the circumstances, it is the decision of the Director of Public Prosecutions to discontinue the criminal proceedings pursuant to section 100(2)(c) of the Turks and Caicos Islands Constitution Order 2011.”

Norrell, an 80-year-old retired neurosurgeon of Sarasota, Florida, and Davis, a 60-year-old co-owner of a Dallas real estate firm, were arrested and charged by the Royal Turks and Caicos Islands Police Force for carrying ammunition at the Providenciales International Airport on Thursday April 25th and Friday April 26, respectively.

They were released on $4,000 cash bail and the matters were adjourned to a sufficiency hearing before Chief Justice Edwin Goldsbrough on Friday June 7th 2013.

The charges sparked raging debates in local and international social media, led to scathing reports in several US newspapers and television stations.

In a recent press release, Premier Dr. Rufus Ewing said the Turks and Caicos Islands “welcomes and appreciates visitors from North America who choose the Turks and Caicos Islands as a prime vacation destination enjoying the beauty, tranquility and security of this small British Overseas Territory”.

He added: “We value our relationship with the United States and its people and will continue to wholeheartedly welcome and embrace tourists from that country. In our efforts to ensure the safety of the traveling public, including our valuable tourists, stringent airport security screening measures are in place at our International airports, which have been designed to conform with and are operated at high international standards. We will continue to recognize the ongoing efforts of those security personnel and agents responsible for the detection of security breaches at these sensitive ports of entry as they ensure safety for all.”

WebSlave said:

Has anyone here ever given any SERIOUS thought about just pulling up stakes and moving to another country? Done any investigation about which country would be a serious consideration of relocating to?

Honestly, I just don't like the direction the USA is going in lately, and I don't see it changing for the better without bloodshed.

Probably just fantasizing about moving to a tropical paradise somewhere that really doesn't exist, but the thoughts have been creeping into my mind lately.

Click to expand...

I have thought about it in the past. I think everyone does at some point. Every place I have considered when you factor in regional problems, culture, language and my biggest concern and obligation, my children, I have come to the realization that staying would be the best option.

When I look at other governments, laws and regulations, treatment of immigrants, corruption, there are tradeoffs for every plus I find with another country. Some of those I'm not willing to let go.

Also (since this is in Preparedness & Self-Reliance Forum), Many in the US would stick out like a sore thump in other places. If there was a worldwide shtf scenario, the hospitality of other countries could abruptly change for expats.

WebSlave said:

Has it yet become just as tough getting out of the USA as it is getting in?

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I guess that depends on how you try to take your funds out of the country and where you are going.

rcarichter said:

I've spent a lots of time in 'tropical paradises'. We have visited the Turks and Caicos every year since before they had roads, as well as the BVI, Anguilla, Bonaire, and Curacao. Just got back from 2 weeks in the Cayman Islands last Friday. Note that these are the 'safe and secure' islands. They are warm, friendly, and beautiful, as long as they know you're leaving. Once you get friendly with the locals and expatriates, you see that we have one of the least corrupt governments in the Western Hemisphere. Tax havens, yes. But the government of these places tends to surprise American property owners with random fees (which can be in the 6 digits). You can pay, or leave. You have no rights to trial, bail, or even an attorney. I have so many stories, stuff Americans wouldn't believe. I don't do conspiracies, or even theories; I only speak of what I've seen.
I will admit I know nothing of the other side of the world. Maybe Fiji? Hawaii is beautiful, but that doesn't really solve your problem.

Noelle

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The last place I would ever consider is the Caribbean. The cost of living, water, electric, homicide and violent crime rate, lack of sustainability and corruption for starters.

Best I understand that reads like the USA
Right now Mexico is a pretty sweet spot,most do not understand that country
Relying on only public media and biased reviews seldom get close to the real world of Mexico.I have a place to go if I need it.

There are ways to get into Mexico without dealing with border check points
and other formalities,no swimming involved either

Yeah,Ill take Mexico in a heartbeat

Dennis Hultman said:

The last place I would ever consider is the Caribbean. The cost of living, water, electric, homicide and violent crime rate, lack of sustainability and corruption for starters.

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One of our 'things' when we travel is to get into a car and wander around the country with cameras and scuba gear. Since you really can't do that in Mexico, we've never gone there. We're adventurous, but cowardly. I'll tell you, places like that are harder to find every year. Give me sharks over people any day!
I will say, as far as lack of violent crime and gov't scandal (involving Americans), the islands that are owned and controlled by Great Britain do it far better than anyone else we've seen. Crime exists everywhere, but the British do an extremely good job of keeping it under control (in the Caribbean).

Noelle

Metachrosis said:

Best I understand that reads like the USA
Right now Mexico is a pretty sweet spot,most do not understand that country
Relying on only public media and biased reviews seldom get close to the real world of Mexico.I have a place to go if I need it.

There are ways to get into Mexico without dealing with border check points
and other formalities,no swimming involved either

Yeah,Ill take Mexico in a heartbeat

Click to expand...

Sounding like the US and comparing the facts on the ground can sometimes be eye opening.

Murder rate per 100,000 people.

Dennis Hultman said:

Sounding like the US and comparing the facts on the ground can sometimes be eye opening.

Murder rate per 100,000 people.

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That's probably quite misleading because of averaging the variable sized geographical areas covered. The murder rate for Detroit, MI alone for 2011 was 48.2 per 100K population.

WebSlave said:

That's probably quite misleading because of averaging the variable sized geographical areas covered. The murder rate for Detroit, MI alone for 2011 was 48.2 per 100K population.

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Instead of the sub regional numbers above breaking it down to individual countries it is still similar.

US to individual Caribbean countries there isn't much of a difference. Detroit is what it is. It's an anomaly in the data across the United States.

I would never move to Detroit either.

Is there more accurate way than % of population?

You can breakdown the North America 3.8 and United States 4.8 down further by regions.

Then by state it even gets better for most.

Which is nothing more then a generated statistic.
Said stat's reflect zero creditability to people that have never been to Mexico.
They believe the stat data from data bots.
I have traveled all over that country for many years and know full well
I can return to regions completely untouched by Cartel/Government intrusions.
I have friends in those regions that have lived decades in peace and far closer to the "American Dream" then 80% of the millions that have lived under the USA Rule across the same time span.

Dennis Hultman said:

Sounding like the US and comparing the facts on the ground can sometimes be eye opening.

Murder rate per 100,000 people.

Click to expand...

Metachrosis said:

Which is nothing more then a generated statistic.
Said stat's reflect zero creditability to people that have never been to Mexico.
They believe the stat data from data bots.
I have traveled all over that country for many years and know full well
I can return to regions completely untouched by Cartel/Government intrusions.
I have friends in those regions that have lived decades in peace and far closer to the "American Dream" then 80% of the millions that have lived under the USA Rule across the same time span.

Click to expand...

OK, but I was talking about the Caribbean Countries.

Probably pretty much the same as rat colonies. The more DENSITY in a given geographical area, meaning larger numbers living in close proximity to each other, the more violence will possibly result among them. If I wanted to move to another country, island or otherwise, I would no sooner move to some downtown location there than I would do so within the USA. 1000 people per square mile will quite likely not have the same sort of interpersonal violence problems that 10 people per square mile will have.

Of course, I'm sure there will be statistics to show that to be untrue as well when comparing difference cultures. For instance, Hong Kong is much safer than New York City because of the cultural differences in the people living in those places. But certainly the population DENSITY in the individual island countries is much higher than the average of the entire USA.

Of course, I would NEVER move anywhere that I couldn't take at least some of my guns with me, that is for certain. Having 1 in a million chance or 1 out of 10 chances of dying from random violence really doesn't matter a whit if you are that 1 unlucky statistic. As long as I can be armed, that puts the odds a little bit more in my favor of coming out of it in a vertical position instead of horizontal.

WebSlave said:

Honestly, I just don't like the direction the USA is going in lately

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I agree. But depending on what, specifically, you dislike, moving may not bring respite for long.
I think the technology for the abuse of privacy in the name of safety is so extensive, inexpensive, and so appealing to government, that it will be hard to resist and that its use will increase everywhere in the future.
There may be countries out there that do not covertly (or even openly) and often violate their own constitutions and which also have decent living conditions.
One of my sons looked into moving a while back, and he found that it would be difficult for him to become a permanent resident of the countries he liked because of their immigration requirements. In addition, he has medical issues, so he must have access to medical care. Everyone may need medical care at some point, so access is certainly worth looking into.
There may be rural areas of various countries that have deceptively halcyon living conditions. The same rural areas might be available to an extent here. But the very freedom from close government interference in extensive rural areas has as its flip side the requirement that one can take care of ones self if trouble arises.
If one fits in, that may be simply a matter of dispensing some street justice to take care of unwanted human predators. But if for whatever reason one did not achieve a good fit, that might make for a very difficult existence if neighbors or others were not available to lend assistance to help one shed persistent predators.