Mike Matson (Mike's Phat Frogs) sold me a WC snake as CB

I don't think any one ever said she was 100% right for how she handled it. That doesn't make the way you reacted right though. Instead of constantly pointing fingers, why BTW make you look bad, how about trying to simply take responsibility for your part in it and leaving it at that.

[quote=bcr229;1921329
Mike Matson stated the snake he sold to the OP was a farmed import and the ads he posted as screen shots also include that information.

Jay Sommers and Edward Kowalski have both asserted that there are no farmers for this species.
[/QUOTE]

I sent a e-mail to MITSINJO which is a conservation program for herps in Madagascar and they were blunt that there is no farm for that species.

some comments

Ed

Originally Posted by Lucille

Yesterday, Mike sent me a written apology for some of the things he has said to me recently. He has also made a refund to a member here, detailed above, and other encouraging actions.
I'm not giving any free passes but I think those actions are a start. I hope this is a trend, not a band aid.
I have asked him to remove the video about the child, and would like him to remove offensive comments made elsewhere because in my opinion both these actions have resulted in negative feelings toward him.
Little seeds can grow up to be big trees. I suggest that it is worthwhile to sow the seeds of good business, instead of dissension.

I had hopes that more would be accomplished. If this was a true attempt at a fresh start rather than mere damage control, I think the video would have been removed, as well as FB posts that mocked various names you chose to bring there because they responded when you flew off the handle.
If your actions are not mere attempts at damage control but a fresh start, there is more that needs to be done.

Originally Posted by Lucille

If your actions are not mere attempts at damage control but a fresh start, there is more that needs to be done.

All things considered, I think it's highly unlikely that anything's really changed in any meaningful way. He still owes Rick $2k and I don't recall seeing even the vaguest remorse for anything he's pulled, including actively soliciting people to call and harass some of us - apparently yielding one nasty call that ended up being received by a teenage girl. I'm guessing that he finally decided to listen to whoever may have been whispering in his ear that he needs to do some major PR work, but salvaging his train wreck of a name on here will require a serious long-game. He's gone wayyyyy too far in the wrong direction for me to believe a couple of baby steps amounts to a real course reversal.

I've met Mike at several shows. I've purchased turtles from him in the past - in person, not at a show because he is local.
I did ask if they were WC vs CB and he did not hesitate to tell me WC. That was my one and only animal transaction with him (6 turtles). I had no complaints. The turtles are still doing well.

I am not his minion, nor am I taking any sides. I just wanted to share a quick line about my experience with him.

People have a tendency to jump on band wagons... both good and bad. I would personally like to see only people with direct or indirect experience make comments. Including hearsay and rumors is a waste of everyone's time.

The OP learned something... don't wait for an animal to die to contact the supplier. As with ALL retailers, immediate communication of anything gone awry is absolutely necessary. When considering we deal with LIVE animals, there are MANY variables that can attribute to problems - including shipping practices, husbandry, diet, temp, humidity, handling... etc. There is nobody in the industry that would give you the time of day if you contact them a month later to tell him your animal died. I understand this particular situation is a bit different because we're dealing with parasites and whether or not the WC/CH/Farmed status was communicated properly, but in GENERAL, we all agree that this is the case.

Mike has learned some PR lessons. Why do companies and important/rich people hire PR personnel? Because its not easy! Michael Jordan was a master at this... but he's unique. Maintaining your reputation while defending against attack is extremely difficult. Most people spiral out of control downhill when situations like this occur. This community is no stranger to that. Keep your cool and manage the situation without letting your emotions get the better of you.

I never wish to see anyone get slammed and forced out of their hobby/business undeserved. But I do adamantly want to put scammers away. There is no vendor out there that hasn't had an upset customer... or several for that matter. That's a part of being in retail business - regardless of industry. There is a "customer service" desk/counter at every large retail store to handle these situations by the thousands. Handling those situations well will make or break you. Don't let it break you, Mike. I personally do not think Mike is a "bad guy." But, I do think he could handle situations/adversity better. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

I am not involved in any way, shape or form, with those that say he owes them money so I cannot/will not comment on those situations. There are simply too many details for anyone to think they have a clear picture from the outside. Accepting later payment or loaning animals/money was surely done based on previous positive experiences and trust that was built over time. They made the decision to trust someone and something went sideways. It happens all the time and every market... you live and learn who to deal with. If you don't trust anyone, you are safe - and that is what many people/businesses do. There's no way to tell/know if someone you dearly trust today will not be able to follow through tomorrow.... that is the inherent risk of trust.

Whether or not his personality is welcomed in certain groups, communities, businesses, meets, or shows is up to those in charge at their discretion.

Originally Posted by John7429

I would personally like to see only people with direct or indirect experience make comments.

That is not how the VERY effective BOI works. Peer pressure can sometimes compel those who have done wrong to do right by their customers. Certainly, discussing the issues can have far reaching impact, both on the parties and as warning to others who may be thinking of future transactions.

Originally Posted by Lucille

That is not how the VERY effective BOI works. Peer pressure can sometimes compel those who have done wrong to do right by their customers. Certainly, discussing the issues can have far reaching impact, both on the parties and as warning to others who may be thinking of future transactions.

1. I did say "personally"

2. Peer pressure when it's accurate. Sidelined individuals that have no direct/indirect involvement are only adding fluff. Again - I include "indirect" intentionally. "My friend had a such-and-such bad experience" applies. "I heard someone say that such-and-such had a friend go through such-and-such and had a bad experience" should not.

I'm all for putting things out in the open and clearing up misconceptions or problems. I'm all for positive peer pressure to do the right thing. I'm all for exposing scammers. But, that doesn't leave an open door for anybody and everybody to chime in...

Originally Posted by John7429

Sidelined individuals that have no direct/indirect involvement are only adding fluff.

I disagree. There are many here that can see a scammer for what he is, and voice their opinion. If you are saying that the members who do so, should not, that is not in keeping with the way the BOI works. And it works well.

Originally Posted by John7429

"My friend had a such-and-such bad experience" applies. "I heard someone say that such-and-such had a friend go through such-and-such and had a bad experience" should not.

If you've read the BOI even occasionally over the duration of your membership, you would realize that the second example you posted is specifically disallowed by the rules, even without the extra step of removal. Of course, that doesn't make the posts go away; but that rule is so well known that the offending party is typically shut down rather quickly.

Originally Posted by John7429

People have a tendency to jump on band wagons... both good and bad. I would personally like to see only people with direct or indirect experience make comments. Including hearsay and rumors is a waste of everyone's time.

Much of the time, those who are directly involved with any given person are too close to the situation to see the big picture - sometimes unintentionally, sometimes in the interest of getting free animals for their support. I can't even begin to count all the times I've seen objective outside viewers catch details that ended up making a huge difference. It's an extremely common occurrence on here. Frankly, those I see putting forth your particular take on how the BOI should run often tend to be people whose activities/associations don't show them in the most favorable light.

Since most of what you're saying appears to be nothing more than you being hilariously dismissive of the gravity of his shenanigans, I think your claim that you're not taking sides is more than a little disingenuous. If you've taken the time to actually read all of his threads and still wish to minimize just how poorly he's handled so many situations, I think that's saying a lot about you - none of it very flattering. If/when your continued support puts you in a position where you're stalked, threatened, doxxed, etc - all activities in which mike matson has actively participated - I have a feeling you'll be singing a different tune.