Be Carefull when dealing with Bill Obston (Email: [email protected] )

Oh, to clarify. Dan is the owner or The Gecko Hut. He is a Crested gecko Breeder. He too bought these very same 2 cresties and was refunded for the very same reason but 8 days earlier than this person. When he posted his disatisfaction about Bill, I agreeded with Dan. Thaht is why I was called a groupie. It was most peoples opinion on that thread that he got his money back so it didnt warrant a bad guy thread. They said that just because someone doesnt get what they want is no reason to have a "temper tantrum". One person even went so far as to say "It was just some crested geckos, not like their is any shortage of them"
Most people came to Bills defense, when Bill himself never cared to answer.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76641

Are there not a lot of crested geckos for sale? I do not know much about them at all, but when I look at reptile ads online I see a lot of crested geckos for sale. Or is it that particular Harlequinn morph?

Hey Wendy !

I can't say as I've read every post and quote in these two concurrent threads, but have to confess to a little bit of a chuckle at being called a "groupie". How dare they !! You know I am smiling.

As for the differing opinions about just how much of a "bad guy" Bill is, or how much of a "temper tantrum" was warranted by the two almost-buyers, we all know that in a situation such as this, where there was no theft, opinions will vary. But I would remind all who took some offense to those of us who were not so harsh on Bill, that the damage is still done with the first post, and barring a presentation of new facts, anyone doing research on him in the future will be able to draw their own conclusions as well based on those facts, and not the opinions that follow. There is no doubt that many of us adhere to a "no harm, no foul" threshold that requires some variation of a loss of money to be worthy of being labeled a serious complaint, while at the same time not approving of what it appears Bill has done. I suggested in the other thread that the excuse Bill gave is a common cover for any number of other reasons that the animals could no longer be available for sale. I would be pretty perturbed with Bill as well. I would also suggest that if every member of the BOI came here every time we were so perturbed, this site would be littered with posts of folks whose main complaint would be that they were upset. I have no problem with the thought of everyone who may ever consider a purchase from Bill knowing of these threads. That won't happen, but all of us should be able to withstand the scrutiny of our various business practices by potential customers.

In closing, let me attest that Wendy is no groupie.

So........let me get this straight (not always easy with 2 threads going and me being a bit ditzy sometimes). Dan paid for the cresties, and was then refunded his money, because they had been sold elsewhere. 8 days later, the next customer paid for them, and even arranged shipping and such....then a couple of days later he was refunded because they were sold again elsewhere. How many times is this Bill/Shane/whomever guy going to sell the same group of cresties???

Perhaps he's not a "bad guy" in the sense that he's not actually ripping people off, but c'mon, something weird is going on here......

Jim, as ever the voice of reason...

If I had your silver-tongued eloquence and your fair and just outlook...my days would be brighter...
I agree absolutely...

Wendy the word was crony...and please do not take offense...it wasn't directed solely at you...and I was a little cranky when I said it...

You have a personal relationship, at whatever level, with the thread starter on the other thread...this causes you to back him up regardless of the facts at hand...or the truth of the matter. And there is nothing wrong with that...that's what friends do...

I was just requesting some good hard facts...which would never be presented because they are not available. I NEVER took Bill's side. I apologize if it appeared that way. I took the side of the BOI. Without FACTS...any claim is as valid as any other.
I could say YOU are a bad guy...even though I do not know you...and have never done business with you. And it would be my word against yours...completely...just as this would be...if Bill were here...LOL

I would never do that...but I do not know Bill and I do not know Dan and actually I don't know Erik either. Their unsubtantiated claims are not worthy of posting a bad guy post, IMO.
Do I think something fishy is going on here? Absolutely!
Is it possible that Bill is unethical in his treatment of customers? Yes, its a definite possibility.
Two claims in one week is enough to raise my concerns.
But there still has not been any PROOF that he is doing something to be considered a bad guy. Specualtion? Sure...Assumption? A truckload...Proof? Not a shred.
I asked if Erik would provide email headers...that would establish burden of proof by creating a timeline...and would most certainly substantiate his claims...it still hasn't happened yet...
Because the mob is already lighting their torches to chase down the witch and burn him at the stake...without any proof...
This isn't Salem...it's the BOI...
We need to stand for values and integrity in the industry...both in the individuals causing the posts...and the people writing them.
The mob mentality is destroying the fabric of this place...as well as the whining because you THINK someone did something.

It has to cease...
Or this will just be another site...filled with useless drivel that gets us nowhere...

In order for this to be a useful tool...just like any other tool it needs to be maintained...

Let me clarify that I do not have a "personal" relationship with Dan. At the same time he was doing the gecko deal with Bill I had contacted Dan for the first time about a gecko he had for sale. We exchaged a few email and phone calls and did a trade. I got 2 amazing Cresies that I am very pleased with and he got one amazing chameleon that he is happy with. Thats it.
I do want to point out neither of us know a thing about each other, but we took each other on our words and shipped them out the same day without even signing a contract. It all went smooth. I wish that there was more folks who parcticed the same professionalism as Dan did!
And I am flattered to be a croney or a groupie! Shows I have a good judge of character! But you have me mixed up with the people. I am a Chamco groupie, go ahead Jim tell them the truth since it is all out in the open now!I do understand we have our bad days and no offense was taken personally. I do find it amusing that everything that doesn't fit into your cut and dry black and white ways of guilt and innocents is compared to "my 3 year old....................." repeatedly.
My opinion has been validated again with the 2nd purchase of the EXACT SAME 2 geckos, and this time a 8 day delay in telling the buyer the same "Local" excuse. He is worthy of the "Bad Buiz" thread but as I said before not a "Bad Guy"

Sorry...the personal relationship was in reference to this from the other thread "I understand completely.I have talked to Dan about this at length. "
You stated a couple times that you and Dan have had phone conversations regarding this...that is all I meant by personal relationship...nothing more than that inferred or otherwise...

Actually I am a Jim Flaherty fan as well...so we are in the same boat there!!

My framework for quilt and innocence is a long way from Black and White OR Cut and Dry...and not everyone who "doesn't fit" is compared to my three year old...I don't even understand where that came from...Dan was compared to my three year old...there was never a question about Dan's guilt or innocence...just his burden of proof...which he was asked for several times and never came through with...
It STILL is a fact that he does NOT know if he was first buyer or not, which is what his whole argument hinged on...so he still doesn't have an argument for his case...which would bring it to the level of WHINING...because his feelings got hurt. That is how children handle their problems...pretty direct correlation to the three year old comparison if you ask me...and he was the only person I have compared to my son throughout all this...so I didn't do anything like you describe here:
"that everything that doesn't fit into your cut and dry black and white ways of guilt and innocents is compared to "my 3 year old....................." repeatedly."
Just called a whiner a whiner...

With Erik's information coming to light...yes...and I have already said this...it DOES appear as if some very shady things are going on with Bill...but he is not a thief, or a scammer, just has something happening that is keeping him from telling people in advance that they are already sold.
Unethical? I don't know...he ISN'T stealing... Bad Business...yes...I would definitely say so...if only for people going through the motions of paying just to be refunded...who would consider doing business with someone that does that to you a second time? Nobody...

Yes Yes Yes, you have stated REPEATEDLY that you think he is a winer, I am a winer, he who does not get the animal he wanted is a whiner.. Great, we are winers. You point is why, why continue repeating it?Feel better?
I just blew through a FEW of your posts and came out with this:

"Coming here and pointing fingers and saying "He hurt my feelings!" is something my 3 year old does."

"Go lay face down on the floor...scream...kick...and pound your fists on the ground. It always helps my 3 year old feel better when he doesn't get HIS way..."

Shall I go on? You also have made it clear in almost every other post you stomp your feet about Innocents until guilt is proven. You sound like a democrat CD that is skipping. What is the cause? But you said clearly:

"I am just looking for something that proves Bill is a bad guy...something beyond speculation...I want the smoking gun."

I take that as being black and white, cut and dry. No matter what people say or how many come forward with the same stories, you still want more.
My mind is made up. The evidence is clear to me.

Please excuse my lack of hitting spell check. "You point is made, why continue repeating it? Feel better? "

Those older folks amongst us will sympathize:

But here's the quote:

.....You sound like a democrat CD that is skipping.

Click to expand...

Now, back in the old days, we could just say "you sound like a broken record", and it was a cliche that all understood. I appreciate completely the analogy that is trying to be made in light of our ever-improving technology, but the day is soon approaching when we will say "broken record" or "broken CD that is skipping", and our kids (or grandkids) will just tilt their heads and give us one of those looks that says "stupid old man"! I can appreciate the political humor a bit though, but we better be careful about expanding this thread topic ! Neither of you has much sense when it comes to picking those to admire, BTW.

Chamco said:

Neither of you has much sense when it comes to picking those to admire, BTW.

Click to expand...

No one ever accused me of having sense (as shown in the above post)


It is obvious that some people will believe whatever is told to them without a shred of proof...
I stated that it is all definitely shady...but there are two claims...and I don't know any of the people involved...
I need more than finger pointing to believe that someone is deserving of a bad guy thread.

Let's look at this hypothetically...

Say Dan and Erik are friends...and they collaborated to bring down Bill, for whatever reason.

Being that I know NONE of these people...that is as equally acceptable a situation as what they are stating, without ANY proof.

I simply asked that header information was included with the emails to verify the email transactions...

That would be the simplest thing to provide, and would satisfy many of the questionable factors of their complaints, however neither of them has made any effort to post them.

I am not asking for cut and dry...as I don't believe this ever will be...but SOMETHING factual would be nice.

I apologize for repeating myself...but all my posts give me the feeling of banging my head against the wall ...so I will discontinue my tirade...

Have a nice day...nothing personal to anyone...just trying to up the integrity of the BOI...

If everyone else feels that proof is not needed to brand someone a bad guy...the tribe has spoken.


Now I gotta go call Bill and buy some cresties so I can really find out for myself...

I Myself am not "labeling" any one a bad guy. But when you get 2 people from 2 different states, both with almost identical circumstances, with little time in between, it leads on to question what the heck this guy Bill is doing. For this reason alone I think it is a suitable thread. (s) [I think it should have been added to the other one just for the sake of less confusion though.]

Now there is no doubt the burden of proof lies on the thread starters, and that it still has not been met. I totally agree with you there. I'll continue to wait and see if they come through with this info, but I agree with the "done talking" part till then. Members here can only do so much, the rest of the burden is the complaintants, and they appear unwilling to come up with the timelines.

What would you like me to show you??

Thanks Erik

I believe you were asked for the email headers so the time frame would be solid. The info at the top, like this..............



Without all the info, to/from, times and dates, it is just words on paper. I think that is what's being asked for.

Rick

Ok, Well since I dont know how to do a "screen Shot" I will just post times here:
MY first email: Sent to him through here on Fauna. Im not sure of the time..

HIS first email: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 16:01:33 -0800 (PST)

MY second email: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 21:22:17 -0800 (PST)

HIS Second email: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 07:04:44 -0800 (PST)

MY Third email: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 12:08:22 -0800 (PST)

HIS Third email: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 18:50:11 -0800 (PST)

MY Fourth email: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:48:31 -0800 (PST)

HIS Fourth email: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 19:58:40 -0800 (PST)

MY Fifth email: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 21:00:48 -0800 (PST)

HIS Fifth email: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:34:41 -0800 (PST)

MY Sixth email: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:32:08 -0800 (PST)

HIS Sixth email: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:45:33 -0800 (PST)

MY Seventh email: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:05:12 -0800 (PST)

HIS Seventh email: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:34:04 -0800 (PST)

MY Eighth email: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:32:34 -0800 (PST)

HIS Eighth email: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:14:14 -0800 (PST)

MY Ninth email: This is the email where I told him that I cant beleave what he did... For some reason I cant find the date/time I sent it. Although it was sent shortly after I received his Eighth email...

If you need anything else just let me know!!

Thanks Erik

PS: I paid him on

Date: Mar. 5, 2006
Time: 11:51:07 PST

according to Paypal!

Thanks Erik

I am not sure how you do a screen shot either. I use a free program called MW Snap3, and save as a JPEG.

As for the emails, most programs have a "save as text" feature somewhere on the page, which copies it all at once as a file name, or you can highlight and copy it all, and paste it. These are the only ways that I know of. Someone else may know an easier route though, since these methods copy the formatting as well.

Too early right now to try and place these times with the posted conversations, and we still need to get the other party to post them as well. Hopefully all the info will be together.

screen shots

I believe all you would have to do is act as if you're replying to the email. This puts the header in your message. Then highlight the entire email, including headers, and hit ctrl-c. Go to your message in fauna and hit ctrl-v. This is one way and there are probably is others.
Kevin

Ps - then cancel your replying or someone is going to get a lot of blank emails.

If you are using Outlook...open the email.

Go to VIEW...then to OPTIONS.

There will be an internet header...

Copy and paste...

Something like this...I only went down to the email header info...

Microsoft Mail Internet Headers Version 2.0
Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net ([216.148.227.154]) by server01.LPSDECO.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713);
Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:36:10 -0600
Received: from rmailcenter89.comcast.net ([204.127.197.189])
by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP
id <20060320013531m1400ssdlce>; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:35:31 +0000
Received: from [216.120.197.196] by rmailcenter89.comcast.net;
Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:35:29 +0000
From: [email protected]
To: "Derek Schneider" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Stuff for sale...
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:35:29 +0000

Thank you, by the way, for the quick reply...