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The PROOF that venomoid snakes are not safe!`

my proceedure was twice a yr put a live rat in there let the snake bite it a couple of times pull out the rat and put in a cage leave over night. in the morning if its still alive you have a successful venomiod. if its dead well you know what happened

am i the only one that thinks this is cruel and unnecessary? Shouldnt better practices be followed when checking a venomoid? Maybe like KY reptile zoo's videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrWhb7EBVsA&feature=channel

and in lue of the "rat test" you can always milk it to. i just have issues milking snakes. just a personal thing.
You should learn then. Isnt that part of learning to keep hots? I would think that it would be the same if you have to test a venomoid as well.....
 
While the live prey test isn't foolproof, or without risks (I've seen intact cobras get pretty nasty bites from live rats during feeding), milking falls under the category of unnecessary handling, IMO.
Many people have kept a venomous snake for years without ever having to touch it, so I don't agree that milking is a mandatory part of keeping. Your average hot keeper doesn't really have much reason to milk a venomous snake...what is the point? I've done it a few times over the years - mostly to satisfy a few of my own curiosities or to demonstrate things to a herpetology class - but it was never a routine practice, even if I had a hot in hand for some legitimate reason.
 
While the live prey test isn't foolproof, or without risks (I've seen intact cobras get pretty nasty bites from live rats during feeding), milking falls under the category of unnecessary handling, IMO.
Many people have kept a venomous snake for years without ever having to touch it, so I don't agree that milking is a mandatory part of keeping. Your average hot keeper doesn't really have much reason to milk a venomous snake...what is the point? I've done it a few times over the years - mostly to satisfy a few of my own curiosities or to demonstrate things to a herpetology class - but it was never a routine practice, even if I had a hot in hand for some legitimate reason.

thank you mr moore. when i kept venomous i handled them as little possible, and never had to nore felt the need milk or restrain the snake like your milking it. there fore i dont feel the need to do it to venomoids, the rat test poses some risk to the animal and would never recomend it the bite and hold eaters of the venomous world. (gabbys come to mind in this catagory as do most aboreals) i did it with cobras because after yrs of watching them hunt and kill they are fairly accurite and don't hold onto prey. the rat test is not fool proof nore should it be used inlue of good handling practices. like i said this is my own personal protocal with venomoids and figured i would share it.
 
i did it with cobras because after yrs of watching them hunt and kill they are fairly accurite and don't hold onto prey.

lol - holding the prey is exactly how the cobras I mentioned got bitten. Apparently, they weren't used to their dinner being able to fight back (they were raised on f/t).
 
its amazing how they learn and adapt to your captive enviroments. when ever i did the rat test the cobra went into more defensive than eating. so i am not sure he evan thought it was food.

which is why i agree it is not fool proof. adult venomous have been know to give dry bites so it can be assumed that a venomoid who has regrown can and will do the same the thing.
 
own opinions

the snakes need there venom to kill there prey but in captivity we feed dead so if the snake has no problems or pain from the sergery and has no problem being fed why is it such an issue its like having your tonsils removed i had mine removed and im fine have not had 1 problem also before i used to carry a loaded gun and was always angry iching to shoot someone but now i got theropy and have no anger isues and never carry a harmfull weapon and everyones happy and everyones safe EXAMPLE <<<< i think the people owning hots should be the ones to worry about there alot more chance for error when it comes to a timebomb im in canada and im sure we lack most antivenom not to sure but i would asume since we dont get many venomous snake bites there for i choose venomoids if your worried the venom we reproduce have a vet check it for you every 3-6 months milking in to stressfull i think and rats will tear a snake up if they get chance but theres always mice,mice work good and out of 12+ years exp i havent seen a mouse injure a snake im sure they have at sometime but i wouldnt be to worryed i seen rats take off a nostril before from a snake i rescuced ,throw a mouse in let it tag it few times if the snakes at such a large size that the fangs could kill mouse maby upsize to rat but only by restraining its head with tonges an hanging infront of your snake anyhow i read everyones post and i think its a great topic for thos that might think its not and more people im sure will read i have to say im with devenomoid he knows whats going on and to that youtube video this is how i feel how can you prove to me thos snakes were properly devenomed i could go grab 2 venomoid an 3 none venomoids an say all 5 are venomoids an be like wow look i just milked these and looks like only 2 are actuly venomoids in my atempt to stop people from buying and selling venomoids if thos were venomoids they were hack jobs done in gramas basment i have reserched venomoid inc and have yet to find one actuly peice of proof of any error done so if your worried who did the sergery dont buy from news papers buy from a licensed company like V.INC as for free handleing dont do it even a nasty bite from these fangs can leave a nice infection causeing some to belive they bin invenomated you can own one of these without ever having to touch it unless you get some kind of problem like stuck shed or somthing but even then theres ways treat ur snake without touching it buy ur tools before or at same time as snake dont think ahh all get them on monday last thing u want is a pissed off cobra taking control of your room ,,,ok im out but all be back when theres more to read on this topic cause its a good one
 
If the venomed procedure is not performed correctly, then this
is the result, and with a score of 2 out of 3 still capable of producing venom, the video speaks for itself.
I think that most of the vets that perform this type of surgery are not doing the procedure correctly, I would not put my trust in any vet that performed this procedure.
Not that they are bad vets, but just because I don't believe that enough knowledge is out there for this to be done 100% correctly.
 
prove to me that thos are indeed venomoids in the youtube video i think the video is just to make people think about it i seen a few videos of venomoids milking but just cause they say its a void doesnt prove anything but what it all comes down to is if you dont trust it dont get one .
 
prove to me that thos are indeed venomoids in the youtube video i think the video is just to make people think about it i seen a few videos of venomoids milking but just cause they say its a void doesnt prove anything but what it all comes down to is if you dont trust it dont get one .


I ask you to go to your Venomoid Inc and ask them to give you a written guarantee signed by the vet that the veomoids they sell will NEVER produce venom again. I mean they do chip their snakes so a signed guarantee should be nothing right?

Let me answer that for you. he will not do that. He will not sign his name to a guarantee like that.

The point is that a vet his human. Humans mess up. DOCTORS MESS UP! Are you saying a vet never will. If he misses any part of the gland it will REPAIR itself and the animal can then again produce venom. That is the point of this thread.

venomoids are the uploaded gun of the hot hobby. What is it going to take a death. Why do so many react instead of prevent?
 
i agree humans are human and make errors but i think if the vet is highly exp in this there shouldnt be any problems its the people not exp that make errors like void inc hes preformed this on thousands of snakes and no one can prove hes made any errors in the past years i wouldnt buy a venomoid from some random person coarse not but from a very exp person with many years of sucesss i beleive its pretty safe but anyone who gets one should have exp and if so it shouldnt be to hard to check for regrowth every so offten to insure its still safe voids are by far safer then hothots if treated like a hot and theres more reasons to not putting anything on paper that it will never regrow as its bin explained if someone took out the chip that is to a void an puts it in a fullblownhot takes a bite an starts a lawsuit stating the snake he got was a void how does a seller prove the truth thousands of dollars in lawyer fees an hours in court crazy ya but some people are ...
 
i agree humans are human and make errors but i think if the vet is highly exp in this there shouldnt be any problems its the people not exp that make errors

Facts and statistics do not bear you out. Check out medical malpractice cases- very experienced doctors make mistakes. It is simply not true that experience makes one 100% perfect. Even the best docs will tell you that they have over a 1% error rate. And if you are the purchaser of the 1% error snake, you are on your way to being dead.


venomswamp said:
thousands of dollars in lawyer fees an hours in court..
Yeah. If you buy or sell voids, sooner or later you will make some lawyer rich. I personally have nothing against rich lawyers, it is just that the injury or death caused by the purported void is a waste of someone's life or health.
 
ok guns are not a fair comparison the only thing hots and guns have in common is a simple human formula.

every human and i mean everyone is guilty of.
experience=familiarity=complacency=accident.

with guns hopefully all u get is a hole in the wall.

with hots u get a massive hospital bill at the least.

and with both hopefully nobody else gets hurt in the process.
 
i agree humans are human and make errors but i think if the vet is highly exp in this there shouldnt be any problems its the people not exp that make errors like void inc hes preformed this on thousands of snakes and no one can prove hes made any errors in the past years i wouldnt buy a venomoid from some random person coarse not but from a very exp person with many years of sucesss i beleive its pretty safe but anyone who gets one should have exp and if so it shouldnt be to hard to check for regrowth every so offten to insure its still safe voids are by far safer then hothots if treated like a hot and theres more reasons to not putting anything on paper that it will never regrow as its bin explained if someone took out the chip that is to a void an puts it in a fullblownhot takes a bite an starts a lawsuit stating the snake he got was a void how does a seller prove the truth thousands of dollars in lawyer fees an hours in court crazy ya but some people are ...


The reason you gave and the others gave for not putting it in writing is just an excuse.

If it is 100% then put it in writting. If it is not 100% then tell the people it is not. Be honest do not lie.
 
ok guns are not a fair comparison the only thing hots and guns have in common is a simple human formula.

every human and i mean everyone is guilty of.
experience=familiarity=complacency=accident.

with guns hopefully all u get is a hole in the wall.

with hots u get a massive hospital bill at the least.

and with both hopefully nobody else gets hurt in the process.

Yeah you are right no one has ever died from a gun that was thought to be unloaded. You got me there. Oh wait..................... There has been a ton of deaths from thought to be unloaded guns. I am sorry MRS Smith I thought my cobra was a venomoid. Bobby and I were just playing. My dad said it was a venomoid. Sorry.
 
This statement is not completely true.

That's why a business owner will hire a lawyer and the lawyer will write a legal liability release form. the seller will require a signature from the buyer. no signature, no sale. signed liability release form means buyer agrees with terms as disclosed. terms are written by laywer to protect the business and the seller. buyer and seller make a decision based on some residual risk. buyer is accountable for their decision.

I don't agree with this. A liability release is only as good as your lawyer or the buyers lawyer. That is why people still get sued and lose money. I have personally seen a business get sued with a liability release in hand. They lost and had to pay a large amount of money.

Now I know that this subject has been beaten a lot but I have to put in my 2 cents worth now. Do I believe in altering an animal just for my own personal gain or happiness? NO I do not. I think that it is very errogent of people. Do I feel that people should handle a reptile as a tame pet such as a dog or cat? No I do not. They are wild animals and there is nothing that can be done about that. Should people feel that there animal is 100% safe (venomous, Venomoid, Constrictor, dog or cat) no. I personally own pit bulls, a croc, rattlesnake as well as large constrictors. I understand that they are animals and should be treated as such. I do feel that a venomiod COULD be viewed as a cuddly pet. To that there was just recently a person on this site looking to get a rattlesnake for here husband. Had no idea how to care for it, properly and safely handle it or really have any knowledge about reptiles. I later saw this same person asking about a venomoid cobra.

I think what people are trying to get across on here is there is a risk of the wrong people getting one of these snakes that really should not have them. Now does that mean that you, me or anyone else is going to stop them? No! But the video is atleast a start to trying to inform people about some of the risks involved. Even if it is to just get them to buy from you instead of someone else, it is still information that may change someones plans to buy one.

Lets try to leave the animals the way that they were created. We don't need to change them for our own benefit. Lets learn about them, educate people that don't and stop fighting amongst ourselves.

Have a great evening!
 
I've always been of the belief if you want a venomoid get a WC rat snake. All of the agressive, none of the venom. Leave animals they way there were born. But then again I think people who get tigers/lions and get them defanged/declawed are the same. =/ I have 1 venomoid, which I did not pay for. It was thrown in a trade I was making because the person wanted to get rid of his snakes and it was the last one and I agreed to take it with the other 2. Poor thing.
 
I think snakes should be left the way they were created, thats the beauty of them.
 
Venomoids a bit of truth for a change.

I see this forum and see the previous post by a zealot that reads
Quote -
I think snakes should be left the way they were created, thats the beauty of them.
end quote.
That's exactly what HSUS and the like say about pythons. Hence S273!
They say it is cruel and mean to stick big snakes in glass tubs.
So they FORCE their warped views on snake keepers.

It's the same for the anti-venomoid people.
They say taking out venom glands is butchery and cruel and so they force their views on those with venomoids by hassling the authorities to ban them.

Success in banning venomoids in various jurisdictions by a small band of misfits breeds success and now they go for the big one - they python ban.

Make no bones about it. That is what is happening.

Dodgy science claims that pythons will overrun north america. Same dodgy science claims all venomoids are dangerous and regenerate venom.

Here's a few accepted "facts".

According to various "reliable" internet posts, online petitions, sponsered by so-called herpers and the like, I, Raymond Hoser am a total butcher who hacks up snakes in my garage with a kitchen knife to make them venomoid.

Miraculously after six years, and in spite of my total butchery, none have died and more miraculously (because I am a clueless git) none of the over 40 snakes hacked up have ever regenerated a drop of venom juice. We know that because I line them up to make them bite me to prove the point. I had to do that after four years of arguing to disprove the widely posted "fact" that they had regenerated venom and were a dire risk to every inhabitant of Australia and anywhere else I went.

I was begged to produce such a video (because the snakes were supposedly dangerous) and my enemies hoped I'd take up the challenge and using the Darwin award theory, kill myself and yet no sooner had I stuck a little hard truth on "youtube" with lots of Taipans biting me, then the enemies petitioned youtube to remove the video.

We have since placed it on our website at:

http://www.smuggled.com/sbs1.htm

see link at top of page, not to convert the world to owning venomoids, but simply to shatter the lie that these things regenerate venom and that our snakes pose some kind of mortal public risk.

Now I'm not going to bore you with the obvious details such as the need to test snakes after operations or issues such as what happens if venomous gets confused with venomoids in a facility where you have both (like ours), but in simple terms venomoid means no venom - ever and they are not dangerous.

It is the same as castration - balls gone, means balls gone - that simple.

By the way we don't supply or sell venomoids to anyone, but that's our choice. The snakes themselves are fine and with a 6 minute operation to render them free from a life of being tormented with sticks or "tongs" (God forbid - now that is something that should be banned!), we don't regard it as a serious issue for the said snakes either.

Now it's time to cut the crap about "er what happens if some is left behind" in venomoid operations.

Same could be said for a human head, if I cut off the ear instead of the whole head!

Also the bullshit about handling venomoids as a way out for novice snake handlers really grates and hides the truth. Venomoid surgery is principally for the welfare of the snake, not the owner. Handling deadly snakes is not particularly hard - I do this daily (venom intact). Freeing snakes from the need to be sticked and the like is the real benefit of venomoids and at the end of it all, those who argue against venomoids are actually arguing against the welfare of the snakes and arguing for all snakes to be tormented with sticks and the like. In the real world, it's that simple!

Meanwhile we shall continue to free handle our venomoids daily (for risk free live snake displays) and they will not suffer the undue stress and shorter lifespans otherwise caused by being stick handled several times daily.

PS Gotta go now and check the clutches of venomoid (parents) eggs in the incubator, because all de-stressed snakes do is FXXCK!

All the best
 
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