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Info Edwin Sanders - Dragon Fortress

...

hhmoore said:
That's a pretty harsh statement, Ed...can you back it up.
I just did a search on Mr Sanders, and found 3 threads - including this one.
One was positive. That leaves one other thread, and there was only one person describing a negative experience, which hardly sounds like the picture you are painting. As a matter of fact, Mr Sanders has referenced his inexperience with regard to that episode...which sort of belies any sort of long history, since that situation took place a year ago.

Him selling thousands of dragons in the past year - well, that does sound like an exaggeration, unless he's got a bigger name and reputation than I thought.
Click to expand...

Yea i agree, real harsh statement. I dont know why you'd say that about Edwin. Fact is from someone other than Edwin. Thousands of animals sounds alittle extreme. But a thousand i dont doubt... I have seen his breeders and know he breeds. i dont know the amount of babies he produces but lets go 600 babies a year. which is actually kinda low.(bearded dragons can lay alot of eggs and most of my girls lay 4 clutches a year from 22 to 38 eggs a clutch) then you buy - sell and trade.(hope you dont mind i put your buss out there like that dude) but I know he does alot of trading. and he would trade a high end dragon for a clutch of lower end dragons and turn them around at pet stores or other buyers. So 1 dragon for a clutch of 18 to 25 dragons. then flips them... So i dont doubt the business he does. and Edwin is more of a reptil expo guy... i know he does every show he can from Ohio to white plains Ny. (where he ran into Chris A.) and as far south as Virginia. So as far as his rep on the web goes he's not the most popular. But at the shows, his table is usually pretty busy. and lets face it. people run to the web to trash talk before they come to praise somebody. so thats probly why you hear more bad then the good on some people.

chris allen said:
I'll have to say, I met Edwin in person at a show. Very nice guy, and all the dragons he had looked good, and I don't think I saw any extremely small dragons being sold....nothing out of the ordinary that would have drawn attention. I did not buy anything from Edwin, but from an observational point of view, he appeared to be friendly, polite, and have decent dragons with him.

I can't stand seeing someone get attacked, especially on a damn forum from someone that probably has never dealt with him personally. Kind of odd, that it seems as though Ed likes to take the opportunity when he can to make someone else that is involved in Bearded Dragons look bad.
Click to expand...

I see his animals every month at the reptile show in harve de grace MD, and never seen anything that looked sick or unhealthy... and most of the time we both feed the animals in front of the customers so they can see it feed and thrive.
And for 8 years of dragons, you dont know much!!! Your quarantine methods are terrible. New animals should be treated, packaging left outside, cage should be treated. and animal should be kept by itself for at least 2 weeks of monitoring. I think most people that are not new to these animals know that. Wasnt the animal also hand picked at the show??? and wasnt the animal fine until put into a cage with the other dragon??? And both animals are dead??? i dont know about blaming anyone in this situation because you dont know what happened... You have no idea what animal was sick or if you did something to kill both animals. it wasnt one but two animals from two separate breeders. So something doesnt sound right. would love a response when you can learn the rules!
 
Ed Clark said:
A quick peek at buyers leaving feedback with trader ratings show 1 buyer leaving feedback since he joined Fauna. he has 2 transactions that someone left a trader rating 1 was a trade and the other was a sale. how can that possibly be selling thousands of dragons?

You say exaggeration, I say he is lying!
Click to expand...

Fauna isnt the only place to sell animals!
 
Its funny ed that you want to talk about liars. your the one that tried to rip me off and I am the one that had a bad experience with you.

Remember that red hypo italian leatherback I was supposed to trade you for your hypo american leather and a het trans girl. We met at the back of the philly airport (where you picked) and made me wait 45 min for you to get there. I showed you the red hypo leatherback that I had for you and you said you liked it and took it. you then tried to pass me a huge box that had shredded newspaper on top, with two dragons in deli cups on the bottom that were in my opinion too small for the animals. you wanted me to just take the box and were trying to leave in a hurry, and I asked you if you minded i f I looked at the animals first. You said go ahead. I checked the "hypo" american leather you were supposed to give me, and to my surprise it didnt have clear nails.

I told you this, and you replied "yes it does, I just looked at them." I said, no it doesnt look, and you took out your glasses, and said, oh, theyre pretty clear. So I took my dragon back from you showed you the difference between the clear nails, kept my dragon and left.

Ed Clark said:
Joe Smith, just curious.

Did edwin tell you who he bought the dragons from that he sold to you?
Click to expand...
I buy and sell, but I also produce most of my animals unlike you.
 
dragonfortress said:
Its funny ed that you want to talk about liars. your the one that tried to rip me off and I am the one that had a bad experience with you.
Click to expand...

I will answer this briefly as it is off topic. this thread is about your dragons dieing on people not about me.

We did meet and try to trade a dragon or 2. I seen the 4" dragon you wanted to trade and asked you how old. you told me 5 weeks. I did not like it because I guessed it to be maybe a week or 2 old. its was tiny.

You looked at the dragons I offered to trade and you did not like them so there was no trade. that was the extent of it.
 
I bought a hypotrans off of ED at the reading expo in JAN and have had nothing but GOOD things to say about him!! Hes very approachable informative and a cool guy to talk to. The girl he sold me is in peak helth and is gorgeous!! I HIGHLY recommend him!!!
 
Edwin,
I should prpbably stay out of this but it looks like your in a little hot water here....
If you have dragons that are 5 weeks old but only look two weeks old it kind of sounds like your microwaving eggs...hotter than normal temps and the dropping back to normal incubation temps to hatch faster...it doesnt give the dragons enouhg time to build a strong immune system and they are at a higher risk of dying at a young age....
I have never done it when I had dragons but I have heard of it being done with the same results...its a rush for the money and not the future of the dragon...

I have a few dealings with Edwin and all were good...he has bought alot of dragons from me when I was breeding dragons and I hope he hasnt got the rush of the money over the care of the dragon....
I am interested to see how all this turns out because they are living animals and can die from time to time but when you have a higher than normal death ratio then something else is playing into it and it is all how you handle it Edwin that will determine how well your businees does in the future....
Good Luck

Travis
Lair of Dragons
 
well ill start off by saying shizzle, lucky you. you were one of the lucky ones who had a decent experience with edwin unlike me and quite a few people i have spoken too. it will all be settled im not doubting that at all one way or another everything will be settled and dropped never to be brought up again, that wasnt the point of this. i was coming on this website so that he would get the negative exposure i believe he should get....and not to my surprise but a few people have posted about bad times regarding edwin...so when ever his name is searched people will see what he has said for himself vs the few other ppl saying how he has killed many dragons on different occasions or the 4-5 dragons he fried like eggs in the same 1 occasion...and they will be able to figure it out themselves. if they really want to take that chance on him or just move onto a different breeder. i will admit he does come off as an extremely nice guy he had me fooled which is why i feel even worse bc im usually dead on with people. but he did fool me and he does a damn good job at it...but like i said hes got plenty of neg. exposure now and with every post this gets, the more it will be viewed, the worse he looks, the safer i feel about people and who they look into buying bearded dragons from, And i wont be stopping with just fauna, it will be other web sites, in person, w/e it takes for people to see who there dealing with....
 
yourbeat said:
well ill start off by saying shizzle, lucky you. you were one of the lucky ones who had a decent experience with edwin unlike me and quite a few people i have spoken too. it will all be settled im not doubting that at all one way or another everything will be settled and dropped never to be brought up again, that wasnt the point of this. i was coming on this website so that he would get the negative exposure i believe he should get....and not to my surprise but a few people have posted about bad times regarding edwin...so when ever his name is searched people will see what he has said for himself vs the few other ppl saying how he has killed many dragons on different occasions or the 4-5 dragons he fried like eggs in the same 1 occasion...and they will be able to figure it out themselves. if they really want to take that chance on him or just move onto a different breeder. i will admit he does come off as an extremely nice guy he had me fooled which is why i feel even worse bc im usually dead on with people. but he did fool me and he does a damn good job at it...but like i said hes got plenty of neg. exposure now and with every post this gets, the more it will be viewed, the worse he looks, the safer i feel about people and who they look into buying bearded dragons from, And i wont be stopping with just fauna, it will be other web sites, in person, w/e it takes for people to see who there dealing with....
Click to expand...

Well you just kinda sound silly... Every breeder in this da*m world has sold a few animals that have died. And if your saying you never sold a animal that has died, your a liar! Like Travis said, it's how you handle the situation. You bought a 50 dollar dragon. It was fine for 3 days by itself then you put it in with another dragon.(should have been atleast two weeks common knowledge for a so called "breeder") But then when the animals are together you have a problem. after the baby dragon goes to the vet and then comes home an dies and then the other dragon dies not long after. If Edwin's dragon was sick or ill you would have seen it when you hand picked the animal!!!! and even if not you had it separated for 3 days and it was alive and thriving. So if your saying edwins animal was sick and got your other animal sick, how come his animal was alive longer than your other dragon. wouldnt it take awhile? then show signs of being sick. then eventually die. And didnt Edwin refund your money??? 2 different dragons, two different breeders and they die. you might want to re-think some of your husbandry skills. Sound sounds like b.s.
Honestly you can trash talk him all you want and try to give him a bad wrap, but when it comes down to reading your post it sounds like the problems are from there care giver. And not with these dragons from 2 different breeders! Maybe you should put down the pitch fork and torch, and pick up a book.

I have traded animals with Edwin in the past and i wouldnt re-think about doing it again. Edwin you have nice animals and keep up the good work!
 
first off your missing out on the fact i brought his dragon home and after 2-3 days of not eating is when the calls and emails started pouring into his voicemail/email...so your clueless...the whole time i had his and mine seperated the orig. was eating like a champ...i cleaned both cages at the same time they were together for a few mins tops..secondly he is the who OFFERED at first over the phone to give me 2 dragons of lessor quality or one higher...he was prepared to give me 160$ leatherback at carlisle but i didnt want it it was too small and didnt look to hot, he said no prob hed have other bigger ones at hamburg...then all the sudden he changes his mind? he sends me an email late the night before the show about this 100$ credit? why does he actall cool in person and on the phone then hides behind an email, te shows coming up on the 27th, and ill see him there....i will trash talk him all i want regardess of what you say or think...your noone to me...he knows whats up he knows how he gave me the run arouind he wont man up and admit it on here like he did at first to me on the phone...he has balls in an email over a computer but not in person, hes a liar and tries to tell you what you want to hear in person then finds his manhood over the computer i absolutely intend on making it as known as i can what he did...like i said people will decide for themselves after reading mine and the other people who posted in this fourm about him...if they want to buy from him good luck, if they dont smart move...
 
just like when i have baught other pets from people and felt like they were great at what they do, and i felt the need to spread the word about how good they are with there animals and business, i will do the same for when i feel like i got jipped....im not saying ANY of you have to trust what i say or like it. you can take it how you want and buy sell trade with him if you want, thats on you. im just posting MY own personal experience with edwin. as far as im concerned you cann all say i dont know what im doing and etc....thats fine. i have only had 2 animals die on me at a young age...and it was this case with these dragons...and i have had quite a few ranging from small lizards to minitors, iguanas. never had a problam...they are all provided with plenty of living space the exact heat and uvb exposure they need....so in my opinion im pretty decent at taking care of my animals. but like i said take how you want...still buy from him or dont thats your decision. even with that being said im going to post up about my experience andx my opinion when ever given the chance...thats the point of these fourms...tell the good and the bad
 
yourbeat said:
first off your missing out on the fact i brought his dragon home and after 2-3 days of not eating is when the calls and emails started pouring into his voicemail/email...so your clueless...the whole time i had his and mine seperated the orig. was eating like a champ...i cleaned both cages at the same time they were together for a few mins tops..secondly he is the who OFFERED at first over the phone to give me 2 dragons of lessor quality or one higher...he was prepared to give me 160$ leatherback at carlisle but i didnt want it it was too small and didnt look to hot, he said no prob hed have other bigger ones at hamburg...then all the sudden he changes his mind? he sends me an email late the night before the show about this 100$ credit? why does he actall cool in person and on the phone then hides behind an email, te shows coming up on the 27th, and ill see him there....i will trash talk him all i want regardess of what you say or think...your noone to me...he knows whats up he knows how he gave me the run arouind he wont man up and admit it on here like he did at first to me on the phone...he has balls in an email over a computer but not in person, hes a liar and tries to tell you what you want to hear in person then finds his manhood over the computer i absolutely intend on making it as known as i can what he did...like i said people will decide for themselves after reading mine and the other people who posted in this fourm about him...if they want to buy from him good luck, if they dont smart move...
Click to expand...

Wow that makes it worse! You put a dragon that was clearly not eatting right and had a obvious problem in the cage with the other dragon, yea thats the intelligent thing to do.:rolleyes: Sounds like your gonna be the care taker/breeder of the century.

You right its not my transactions so i am not on top of it. maybe you should explain your transaction properly the first time so i can understand. if you have a dumb kid do you blame him or his teacher???

It sounds like Edwin tryed multiple times to make you happy and wipe your little tears away and you just kept complaining. So he made a fixed deal that was double then what you spent!

I may not be nothing to you. But maybe i am something in a world that you know absolutely nothing about!!!:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod:

Oh good you will be at that show. I will see you there. computer bad boy.:thumbsup:
 
You both have a point and you both have the right to post your opinion on breeders. Let me add to both of your opinions...."dragonluver83" yes every breeder has had sold dragons that have died ...as I stated before it happens but reputation can kill a breeder faster than anything you can come up with, and to "yourbet" I know for a fact you are not the only one that has that happened with Edwin....and you may ask how I know....I live in the same town as him and I have had several of "HIS CUSTOMERS" call me and complain that the dragon I sold them died but after talking with them and explaining who I am and who he is the realize it was not me since I havent had a dragon at a show in a long time or for the fact even worked a show....

Both of you need to keep in mind that breeders can not survive just off internet sells and I have worked a lot of shows and maybe you have too and most of the show customers dont even know that this website or "KS" exist and they buy the cheep dragons and take it home and it dies and they either chalk it up to their lack of experience or realize there might have been something wrong with it but they just cant remember who they bought it from.
I know for a fact that Edwin hasn't been breeding for a long time, when he bought his first few dragons from me it was less that two years ago and he only had a couple dragons, if I remember correctly, and it is sad if he is doing what you all state he is doing and like I said before if you fast cook babies in the egg you get the results everyone is complaining about.

If it wasnt for forums like this no one would be the wiser about the good quality breeders and the bad quanity breeders...and post like these will at least let a unsuspecting buyer do some research before they make a buying discission if they even know this forum exist.

And from what I am reading on this post and other post Edwin will not last long to the educated buyer but he will survive at show till the word spreads at them as well even if he changes the way he produces dragons and the way he backs up his policies his reputation will haunt him for a very long time, maybe even put him out of business...time will tell.

Travis Delaney
Lair of Dragons
 
yourbeat said:
just like when i have baught other pets from people and felt like they were great at what they do, and i felt the need to spread the word about how good they are with there animals and business, i will do the same for when i feel like i got jipped....im not saying ANY of you have to trust what i say or like it. you can take it how you want and buy sell trade with him if you want, thats on you. im just posting MY own personal experience with edwin. as far as im concerned you cann all say i dont know what im doing and etc....thats fine. i have only had 2 animals die on me at a young age...and it was this case with these dragons...and i have had quite a few ranging from small lizards to minitors, iguanas. never had a problam...they are all provided with plenty of living space the exact heat and uvb exposure they need....so in my opinion im pretty decent at taking care of my animals. but like i said take how you want...still buy from him or dont thats your decision. even with that being said im going to post up about my experience andx my opinion when ever given the chance...thats the point of these fourms...tell the good and the bad
Click to expand...

Its not that we dont want to hear about it, cause we all want to know who does bad business. But its the immature unprofessional manner that your using to post him as a "bad guy". Try to do it alittle professional and make a solid point. Thats how you will get people to listen and agree. but running around saying i am going to bash him every where i go i am going to write it on the bathroom walls. This isnt high school so lets grow up!
I am sorry that you lost your animals and dont think that i dont feel for you. but reading what you wrote and how you wrote it, it makes a opinion formed around you.
Lol funny thing is the way your handling this some people will turn your sale away calling you a "bad sale". In my opinion you had an animal that died and with many attempts from Edwin to replace it or give you a better dragon. and you still weren't happy. then he offered you 100 credit when you spent 50 bucks. Its not like the guy said, "no not my problem" "it wasnt my fault you killed the animal." Then i would say go for it, blast the crap outta him. but in this case he is tryin to work with you and you are refusing EVERY effort to resolve the problem. So.....................
 
lairofdragons said:
You both have a point and you both have the right to post your opinion on breeders. Let me add to both of your opinions...."dragonluver83" yes every breeder has had sold dragons that have died ...as I stated before it happens but reputation can kill a breeder faster than anything you can come up with, and to "yourbet" I know for a fact you are not the only one that has that happened with Edwin....and you may ask how I know....I live in the same town as him and I have had several of "HIS CUSTOMERS" call me and complain that the dragon I sold them died but after talking with them and explaining who I am and who he is the realize it was not me since I havent had a dragon at a show in a long time or for the fact even worked a show....

Both of you need to keep in mind that breeders can not survive just off internet sells and I have worked a lot of shows and maybe you have too and most of the show customers dont even know that this website or "KS" exist and they buy the cheep dragons and take it home and it dies and they either chalk it up to their lack of experience or realize there might have been something wrong with it but they just cant remember who they bought it from.
I know for a fact that Edwin hasn't been breeding for a long time, when he bought his first few dragons from me it was less that two years ago and he only had a couple dragons, if I remember correctly, and it is sad if he is doing what you all state he is doing and like I said before if you fast cook babies in the egg you get the results everyone is complaining about.

If it wasnt for forums like this no one would be the wiser about the good quality breeders and the bad quanity breeders...and post like these will at least let a unsuspecting buyer do some research before they make a buying discission if they even know this forum exist.

And from what I am reading on this post and other post Edwin will not last long to the educated buyer but he will survive at show till the word spreads at them as well even if he changes the way he produces dragons and the way he backs up his policies his reputation will haunt him for a very long time, maybe even put him out of business...time will tell.

Travis Delaney
Lair of Dragons
Click to expand...

Yea i fully understand about the dragons dying. Its happened to me. But i have resolved my problems before they even really became one. And i am aware about the shows. I do shows pet stores and web sales. you were set up next to me at harve de grace this past spring and we had a horrible show and that was the last time i seen you, lol. I dont set up and have a sign or poster that says Baltimore beardies. I say incognito... :sneaky: Actually i dont want to set up a sign everytime i go. too lazy. that and i usually roll up to the shows late... Like my job, hum weird.
As in all situations though if i am wrong i do apologize, and If Edwin is really cranking up temps to hatch babies... well lets just say i hope not. i think the problem is he sells his babies at 5 inches. i use to do that to and noticed i was having some problems. so i started holding them until 6 inches. and then for some reason 99% of my problems went away. Maybe Edwin needs to learn that like i did and he'd be on easy street.
 
yourbeat said:
i can pretty much say that i had the same problam with edwin and im going to also say im not gonna keep this pretty and professional bc im done with that...i baught 1 dragon from him that did the same as the others only difference is for a few mins i had him with my other dragon(another small baby) while cleaning the cages i have vet statements stating that his dragon carried a infection/virus which was spread to my other baby in a matter of minuets...i called an emailed edwin for weeks before i finally get an email sayin he had swine flew? really? come on...then he calls me finaly after weeks and 2 dead dragons later...i followed everything off of his website to a T and still it took him weeks...he is a TERRIBLE PERSON AND "business man" i use that term loosly he had me drive 3 hrs to carlise bc he said i could pick out 2 dragons or 1 of higher quality said he had the size i wanted/color everything...only for me to get there and he says"oh i forgot them" i wanted to kill em...i recforded every phone convo every email...voic mail his so called guarentee i even have emails stating its his fault and i did everything i was supposed to i have vet bills and statements..so after all that he has me drive 3 hrs again to hamburg and yet again says he forgets them but he has somthing else...i liked the dragon so i said ok...he looked at me and says ok you have a 100$ credit so you owe 80$...i almost jumped the table so my finace handled it as she did most other convos with this POS...but its all good he gave us a lowsy 50$ and pretty much an F U. good thing is my family is full of lawyers so all these recorded phone calls / emails/voice mails i have every reciept for gas an tollls i spent to get there and back pluss entry fee and the vet bills pluss the cost of my other baby...his dragons are half dead at birth and 100% dead weeks from then...so from all the info i recieved from my family and the fact he'll be recieving a letter in the mail regarding my case im filing...every lawyer i talked to is QUIET confident ill be recieving all the money i forked out for this terrible person/business man...all he cares about is money its like a puppy mill for dragons hes so shady...see you in hamburg edwin...hopefuly have that letter ready for you by then :)...NO ONE BUY FROM HIM YOUR ONLY GOING TO BE LET DOWN AND HURT BY WATCHING YOUR ANIMALS DIE!!!!!
Click to expand...

wow, grammar much? didn't think so
 
yupp bad grammer, didnt really care to spell check and type everything out...but thanks for pointing that out im not too sure what we would have done without you kind sir....your only what? the second or third person to point it out?
 
I just purchased a dragon from Edwin today before reading this, now that the transaction is already made I will just have to see how it all plays out. I was very impressed how professional he was at the show and how they gave receipts, caresheets, guarantees on paper, and a certificate. I was thinking how good he was over most vendors where you get an animal and a hand shake and thats it. So as of right now my impression is he is a great guy but we will see how well the animal does and if it eats and I will repost my findings.
 
good luck, considering hes given you all that with the dragon, i assume hes cleaned his act up a bit....because none of that was given to me, good luck and i hope your bearded makes out well.
 
lbratcher4 said:
I just purchased a dragon from Edwin today before reading this, now that the transaction is already made I will just have to see how it all plays out. I was very impressed how professional he was at the show and how they gave receipts, caresheets, guarantees on paper, and a certificate. I was thinking how good he was over most vendors where you get an animal and a hand shake and thats it. So as of right now my impression is he is a great guy but we will see how well the animal does and if it eats and I will repost my findings.
Click to expand...

I dont think you will have anything to worry about with edwin. your first opinion is probly what you should go on. Even when i setup at shows, i dont give out all the information he does. To be quite honest I dont think that many vendors go threw that? He does more reptile shows then retail on the web. That's why he does all that he does at the shows.

Good luck with your bearded dragon.
 
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