YOU GOTTA CHECK THIS OUT on Kingsnake!

Seamus,

I reluctantly write this because it may be construed that I am sticking up for Cheris and she does fine on her own and I applaud her efforts to even keep writing in this forum. BUT she is correct, I have seen the thread where she was giving a warning on a virus and the mere mention of Melissa Kaplan sent you into a tail spin and you have apparently kept that going. Why? Perhaps because she has her own beliefs that differ from yours? I also have not problem with MK, as of yet, but I am not a blind fan either.
I also would like to mention that your post in the Iguana discussion tho- possibly in your own way you thought you were going to be helpful was rude. A lot of people who own iguanas would take offence to that and I wouldn't blame them and not blame them for wanting to come on to that site to discuss just to be ridiculed by you. I am novice in iguana care and that was a turn off for me as well. Although I am going to over look your obvious rudeness for the better of a whole, others may not. If you really want this forum to take off as well maybe there should be some upbeat, possitive as well if not more than negitive, on the BOI I understand but on the discussions boards?
You write much more eloquently than I but even in your writings you childness is showing through by only picking up one thing out of many.
Maybe you should show that you are bigger than those people you down so much, ie, MK and KS and most iguana owners and admit when YOUR wrong.


Rozann Lamont

I just wanted to say that I know I have misspelled words and the wording is not correct in the last post, it is early in the morning and quite frankly, I don't care. It is not about whether I dot every I or cross every T so no need to point it out, I already know.
Its about my thoughts and my wanting this forum to take off as well. But I can't go into a forum here or as you call a discussion board if I am the only one on and no others will write here. So until that happens I have little choice to go to KS for that part of my entertainment. I hope my point is coming across with out the dotted I's and crossed T's
Rozann Lamont

Okay, let me ask this....WHY is there some kind of fight going on in this thread(oh wait, kingsnake, nevermind )?

I read Seamus' post when it was up for that long 45 minutes or so on kingsnake. I honestly felt there was nothing overly rude or antagonizing in it. He stated the facts he knew, and the ones he said he wasn't sure of he said were rumors or stated he didn't have proof. Yes I will agree that it was in a way an "attack" on Melissa Kaplan, however given her information(yes I have read it to) on species other than iguanas(Seamus stated this as well), it was deserved. Ms. Kaplan has some very inaccurate information posted in many of her caresheets, has been notified of this REPEATEDLY by many people, and apparently refuses to change or correct any of it. If her stance is that reptiles are next to impossible to keep healthy and that noone should be allowed to own them, then the information on her site suits her needs and motives perfectly. She is a "noted and renowned expert." Any information she posts or sponsors should be gold right? So if an EXPERT tells you corn snakes eat crickets, many novices will not argue. And when their snake dies from malnutrition, then they will agree that they are almost impossible to keep and fuel her argument. If somone buys a baby boa despite all the warnings and insults in her care article, if it is not up to ten feet at age 2, that person will think they are doing something horribly wrong when their snake is at a more average 4-6 feet. Again, more fuel for her campaign. So why change the information?

But I can see why many of the iguana people on the kingsnake forum got so hot and bothered. The "Iguana Queen" was being questioned as to the validity of some of her information. I don't agree AT ALL with the way that post started out(or ended for that matter), but before it was deleted, it did bring about some fairly intelligent discussion.

In the end, Jeff will run kingsnake as he sees fit as he always has. Outside of the moderators(don't use the boards that often anymore anyway), it is still a good site for buying and selling herps. Faunaclassifieds is great and is being run as Rich sees fit, which thankfully, is more fair-handed and allows for us to openly discuss those awesome deals we've gotten as well as the deals-gone-sour.

First off I didn't really know there was a "fight" going on here.
I am not saying Seamus started that post, I saw it through from the beginning. I know he didn't. I also complimented him on his post there.
I don't think anyone is saying MK is right, or KS is right. I am just saying that MK has never said anything wrong to me about iguanas. So what? If I were to check out other animals on there, it would not be the only place I check. So maybe she is the jack of all trades master of none. She just has been right on target with helping me and my iguana AND some of it collaborates with other sites, and what does not I look for what makes the most sense and what the general opinion is.
As far as KS is concerned, I think they are in the wrong here, but it is their site and can do what they want to pound it into the ground. BUT that is the best place, for now, to go to forums. For me, I go for the BD and the iguana forum, here there is no BD forum that I have found and an iguana forum that no one goes to. So until more people are incorporated to these forums I would be communicating with myself, or Seamus at times if he feels like gracing me with his presence. (sorry but that is what I got from what he wrote.)
It seems to me that a lot of good info gets lost because something is mentioned that triggers someone off, they take that piece and rip it to shreds, and there is great info being left in the dust.
Just my opinion
Rozann Lamont

I have to agree that it is hard to find a forum entertaining if there is no body in them. You say that you would like to use the forums here but there is no people. Then, why not try to bring some people. There has been a few of us that have made the effort to go to the forums here. I have kept iguanas for several years, but by no means am I still interested in them. But I do know a lot of info that could be of help to others. So I make a point to go to that forum so at least someone is there to answer questions. Little by little if we let others know that there is a forum that we all can talk in without haveing posts deleted, I think people might come. Only a few people use the personal attacks here, it is not something that is done by everyone, so this whole group should not be labeled that way. There is still a lot of us who would love to help and who enjoy the debate. Just give us a chance. Thanks.

Tony Alles
www.reptileguru.com

I would not in any way give up on this forum. There are good people here as well as KS. And I am going to try to bring people around if I can.
It is just a little snag there when you can't mention this site in other sites. I have come up with an idea though, which I have started to work on I won't share on open forum tho-

Rozann Lamont

Cheri,

by "fight" I meant the shots that you and Seamus seemed to be firing back and forth at each other in the last few posts. I apologize if I read more into either of your posts than was intended(and NO I'm not going to quote them).

And yes, the forums here WOULD be better with more participation. Well, let's start participating. Even if it's just say a group of 10-12 people in the forums answering and asking questions, then eventually it will grow, but those original 10-12 need to start discussions that will interest people. Get some polls going(heheh, we all know I LOVE polls ) to get people participating and interested. I'm actually going to hit a couple of forums right now and do just that.

I'm sure kingsnake's forums weren't getting however many hundreds of daily posts right off the bat, it took some time. The same goes for this site's forums as well.

Rob, I think she was talking about Seamus's post on the iguana forum here, not on KS.

I normally try to avoid iguanas, iguana related message boards and iguana owners, it's an enormous stereotype on my part but I find most of them to be among the most ignorant of reptile owners, to the point where my palms itch and I grind my teeth to nothing as they speak...

thats not real welcoming to iguana owners coming here, maybe webslave and seamus could discuss it and reach another way for him to welcome people there.

I have never talked to Stardust about her feelings on that post or his response to the thread I mentioned earlier about viruses I had started, to know how those struck her. I have talked to many others and that came up as the exact reason they are turned off to even try here. I have emails and PM's from people that posted on that thread or only read it, never posted here(afraid too) and were disgusted by the attacked, it had no bearing on what I was saying. And that is not the only one. If I remember correctly, one person that posted there and voiced their feelings on seeing things like that, never has posted anything since.

Perhaps some have been here and discussing things like this with each other for so long there is an immunity to it. Not able see how it hits others just coming here for the first few times, affects any credibility that person may write on anything or anywhere else and the site that it is on. It is not the opinion, its the way it is presented and the childish name calling or belittling because another does not feel the way you do It informative to say: this informations is not correct, in fact, this animal will not eat this food.... as opposed to rattling off a list of gross name calling to get your point across.

Webslave already reminded us this is not the way to go. We are given a lot of freedom here, freedom is a precious thing, but with it also comes responsibilities. I have no problem admitting I am as guility. When my integrity was questioned falsely, my first response (well second) was to slap the offender silly, if not in person, then in words or at least show them how absurd they are.

Words are a powerful thing, they can inform constuctively, they can destory others and they can also tell others more about the person writting it , than the person realizes themself or intends to.

You don't build respect for yourself at the expense of another, you build it by your contribution to the same industry, what you give or put into it and how you go about doing that......

If the users here want this site grow, it is up to them and how they build it, not by what they say, but how they say it.

Rob

I respond to statement that is not what I ever said and addressed to me as

Cheri, you also don't seem very bright... Just how many times do you have to be told I am not GMoney before you get it through that dense little skull of yours?

and then answer question that can only be attempts to mislead people if I don't answer them and I am firing shots?

I see Well, forgive me for aiming

[quote]I see you got your usually "don't seem very bright", "dense" demeaning "little" and the repetitive "juvenile" in your post directed at others. Along with your "frank", "honest", "factual" and "actual" speaking of yourself <----some psychology courses might benefit you in the future.

Is that not firing a shot back at Seamus? Maybe not quite as outright insulting as "you must not be very smart," but I saw it as a veiled shot, nonetheless.

And I did not see the post regarding the "ignorance" of iguana keepers, so please forgive my ignorance on that. Guess I need to stick around every HOUR to see everythign that is going on here. lol

Also, just one more thing, then back onto the subject...I guess:\ Seamus mentioned the rumors about Ms. Kaplan that have been going around, and you accused him of attempting to further spread those rumors. I had heard all of those rumors in various forms long before I even knew there was a BOI or a Seamus Haley. How was he further spreading them? He even stated he DID NOT HAVE PROOF of these and that they were rumors. Perhaps I am missing something there that shows he is intentionally spreading falsities, and if I am I apologize in advance.

And so you know, NO, I am not 100% backing Seamus on this one. I disagree with some of the things he said regarding iguana keepers, but his initial post on that kingsnake thread I feel was pretty much right on about Ms. Kaplan.

Now, I know that Ms. Kaplan has come here before to state her side of things, I am surprised not to see her here again backing herself up. Neither is Jeff for that matter, and he has been on here in the past as well. However, I can somewhat understand why each won't address these issues HERE.

Also, just for the record, Adam, it says specifically in kingsnake TOS that if you lose your account for TOS violations, you FORFEIT your $54. If Jeff said he would give you a refund, then by all rights he should, however, he is protected by his TOS from giving you one. And Tony, not to offend you or start a fight(this was hashed over in your thread regarding what happened with you and Jeff already), but YOU didn't keep track of when your account expired. You should have been able to know on your own that at least some day in such and such month you bought your account, and that a year from that date it would expire. Although notices are nice, you should be able to handle it on your own without one.