JeffB apparently doesn't like me having KINGSNAKES.COM...

Jeff looses the arbitration, I am sure he will persue it legally. Now as I indicated in my earlier post, how much money is Rich willing to shell out to keep this battle going. Jeff makes a considerable profit with Kingsnake, and Rich makes nothing with Kingsnakes. So you be the judge. I doubt that no one would even consider purchasing the site from Rich at this point, nor do I envision any amiacable solution other than Jeff causing a financial burden on Rich. As it stands their is bad blood between the two sites, and I see no easing of tensions on either side. Rich of course may be more reasonable in his approach to dealing with problems that arise, but its been shown time and time again that Jeff leaves no room for negotiations. JERRY TRESSER

I understand what you are saying, Terry, but this is not the same thing. The term "kingsnakes" is generic to this industry. It is an easily identifiable term that many people, both novices and alike would use as a search term to try to find a website related to their interest in kingsnakes. This group of snakes, by far, is one of the most popular of genera of snakes typically being bought and sold in the pet industry, and as such is valuable for that fact alone.

The term "kingsnakes" and "king snakes" is used interchangeable in the herp trade. Certainly if spaces were allowed within domain names there is no doubt that "king snakes" would be an active herp site as well. This common generic name has been in common usage for a VERY LONG TIME. I have an extensive herp library, some books dating back into the 1800s, and I can show conclusively to any court that this generic name has been in common usage for longer than any of us have been alive.

If we were talking about me having JEFFBARRINGERS.COM or ONLINEHOBBYISTS.COM, well yes, then I think there would be a definite case for contention. Quite frankly, Jeff Barringer does not own the terms KINGSNAKE or KINGSNAKES. No one can. If it takes me going to court in order to prove that, then so be it.

Those names are being used as placeholders for websites on the internet. They are much easier to remember than IP address, which is why we have domain names. And that is why domain names of an easily recognizeable generic nature are considered as being valuable.

Terry, tell me, if you had the opportunity to get MILKSNAKES.COM for yourself, would you? The idea being, wouldn't you WANT people interested in milksnakes to come to your site? I assume you read the earlier parts of this thread in how I came to get KINGSNAKES.COM. There was no cash out of my pocket, and in the process I got to do a good deed for a friend of mine. Tell me you wouldn't do the same thing.

FAUNACLASSIFIEDS.COM, like it or not, is primarily being utilized by herp enthusiasts. Any herp related domain name that could be utilized to bring that traffic to this site would be considered as an asset. But really good identifiable domain names are now few and far between. The law of supply and demand is what makes value in any commodity.

Try to find any generic name of a group of reptiles commonly kept in captivity and/or regularly bought and sold in the pet trade that is still available. Even branching out into areas where less commonly seen pet quality reptiles are indicated, a casual search on my part could only come up with RIBBONSNAKES.COM as being still available. Not exactly a hot commodity, I would say.

This whole thing is just very unfortunate. I was obviously in the process of selling off that domain name, so there is no doubt at all that I had no intention of using it in any malicious manner or in bad faith. And yes I did find the situation humorous in the fact that I was dead certain that Jeff Barringer would want that domain name. And the fact that I now had it would not set well with him. In reality, he could have bought it from John Organsicak at any time he wanted to. Things just worked out the way they did by pure chance.

KINGSNAKES.COM was not treated in any manner inconsistent in how I have treated all of my other parked herp related domain names. It was merely placed in limbo containing a referral link to this site until I could find the time to even think about what to do with it. Bear in mind that I obtained this domain name around May 29th of this year. I was at the peak of the process of having 5,500 corn snakes being laid. On May 29th ALONE, I had 19 clutches laid that needed tending to. What to do with KINGSNAKES.COM was just not top on my priority list at that time.

I have 90+ domain names to my name right at the moment. Many are being held with the intention of sometime in the future maybe setting up an active website, leasing them, or outright selling them if I have the desire and incentive to do so. Matter of fact, the only reason Alex Hue even became aware of my ownership of KINGSNAKES.COM was when he was inquiring to me about how to do domain name referral jumps and I just happened to use that as an example to show him how it was done.

And yes, when he approached me about buying the domain name, I just told him no, because I really didn't have any idea about what I wanted to do with the doman name at that time. I was comfortable with just having it. When he made me a VERY good offer, that was when I decided to sell it. It was NOT for sale until he made me an offer I could not refuse. The auction was decided on by both of us to generate some excitement about the domain name and to generate instant traffic for Alex's site when he got the domain name and made it into an active site. I purposely set the reserve price so high that NO ONE else was at all likely to win that auction. As far as I was concerned, the domain name was already sold.

In retrospect, yes, I guess I should have just sold Alex the name and been done with it, but I felt that I was doing Alex a favor and I was curious myself as well as to how many hits that auction would get on ReptiBid. One of these days I am going to have to learn to stop doing nice things and favors for people.

LOL, just for kicks I went to see if king-snake.com was taken. Some goof must have been reading this and decided to get it.

Rich and I both play around with domains, I've owned everything from my favorite presidents name.com to kyza.com...

Point is, I never deal with hyphen or number domains. They're basicly worthless! king-snake.com will be the same but point is this is bringing out some interest.

Oh wait, I own 4adam.com so I have a number domain. Wanted a slogan, "if you're looking for adam go to 4adam.com" and of course just adam was very long gone.

... the Consigliere' also bears the family name.

Regards,
Jeff Nichols

Rich.

I don't know if this helps as it is OLD information. But years back well taking a bussiness class we had a Lawyer come in and speak with us. He brought up the fact that NO ONE can own a name of a specific living life form as in patend the name. A good example is in the perfume industry where they can make a generic name for their product but can not patend the flowers or spices used. I still get confused by that as I am not an attourney.

You tried to bury the Ax with Jeff awhile back and yet he still keeps trying to make your life miserable. You did the upstanding thing in my opinion. Perhaps you should think of a countersuit at this point.. From the amount of people he TOSSES from his site at will that did nothing more then state an opinion well withen his TOS and still gets the boot. I believe you would have plenty of proof to his charachter and nature and his obvious harassment.

Just a thought granted I need coffee but perhaps a counter suit would wake him up. Then again maybe it would only make him cry louder.

Scott Bice

On November 27, 2003, I sent the following email entitled "Truce" to Jeff Barringer:

Jeff,

Well it's pretty obvious that we both have hard heads, both hate to back down from a confrontation, and both have short fuses, eh? I think it's time we try to work this out between us and try to mend whatever is broken before it gets any further out of hand. I am sure we could both be spending the rest of our lives in court fighting each other, but is that what you or I really want to do? I think we both have better and more productive things to do with our time and efforts, and I am suggesting that we try to talk this out and stop butting heads continually.

It is pretty unbelievable that this has been going on for so long and I personally am tired of the conflict, tired of hearing about what you do on your site, and tired of this whole damned mess. I sincerely wish that I had not been swayed by those people who got themselves all worked up in a lather when I decided to end the warfare a while back, at least my part of it, by canning the discussions about other sites on my boards. By allowing it to continue, it just allowed this all to continue eating away at any possibility of a peaceful resolution. I positively and sincerely had intended to do exactly what I stated about eliminating such talk on my site.

People are now egging me on to sue you, probably people are egging you on to sue me. But I have to wonder how many people would be completely overjoyed if we both went down with death grips on each other's throats?

So I am asking you flat out: Do you want to try to work this out?

I don't even know if we can, maybe the gulf is too wide now, but I think it would be a good idea for everyone if we at least try.

And yes, I am apologizing for those things I have done just to tweak your nose, or get a laugh at your expense. I guess my feelings got hurt, and yes I am human. But regardless, I really should have been above all that and tried to set an example for other people to follow.

Have a fulfilling Thanksgiving, regardless.

No response was received. A followup message was sent later that day from a different email account, just in case.

On November 28, 2003 I placed the following order with OnlineHobbyist.com:

Dear Rich Zuchowski
Thank you for your order!

Thank you for your purchase .
_______________________________________
Customer/Shopper ID: 17137
Date and Time: 11/28/03 22:07:10 CST
_______________________________________

Item: Details: Quantity: Each: Item Total:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Storefront Page - Breeders 1 $ 161.63 $ 161.63
- 1 Year Annual Sales Tax: +$11.63
Account http://www.SerpenCo.com
World class breeder and
provider of cutting edge
corn snakes.
- kingsnake.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sub Total: $ 161.63
Grand Total: $ 161.63 PAID

_______________________________________
These products will be shipped to:

Rich Zuchowski
SerpenCo

-- address info deleted by WebSlave --
_______________________________________

Peace offering.

Emphasis added.

To which the following response was received:

A credit for the amount of $161.63 has been applied to your credit card.
Please feel free to contact ONLINEHOBBYIST.COM,INC about any questions you might have about this
transaction or order #17137.

You can send us e-mail at receipts@onlinehobbyist.com or just reply to this message.

Thank you for your patronage.

A reply to the email requesting the reason for the rejection was not replied to:

I would like to have an official reason why my order was rejected.
SerpenCo.com has never violated any of kingsnake.com's TOS rules.

FYI.....

someone has SAND in there Diaper

. . . no matter what anyone else says - it's OK to call a truce - even if it's one-sided. It doesn't do any good to keep goading KS - it just drags you down further. If someone doesn't call it quits, it's only going to get worse.

I've read about a number of "herp feuds" on the BOI - and I don't see one that has ended in a good way. Sure, some one might be declared a "winner" or "loser" but in the end - you are the one who has to live with all the memories, the hassles and the anger. Life's too short - you have too many cool corn snakes to produce to be sucked into this never-ending feud. Someone HAS to be above this contant herp-slugfest.

It may not turn out the way you want, in the end - but nevertheless, you have done the right thing.

Ultimately, there has to be some solace in doing the right thing, even if it gets rejected.

Personally, I applaud your efforts!

I too applaud your efforts. Monty's right, it's always best to do the right thing regardless of the response. I liked your "truce" text. Well done.

peace
terry dunham
albino tricolors

I applaud your efforts Rich. You have been the bigger man in this whole ordeal and you've tried to take the high road.

You've given him every opportunity to mend fences and come out looking like a reasonable person. The problem is that you can't make dogsh*t taste like candy no matter how much sugar you sprinkle on it.

Kingsnake has been a very successful venture for Jeff but he will eventually kill it. It will take a while but I can already see a slow decline over there during the past year.