Sunshine Serpents

and why on earth did it ad the shooting in the foot smiley when I quoted Laura's post :P
weird. Ironic since I basically shot myself in the foot by question a "fan favorite"

Also, it should be noted that just because someone is feeding a snake every 7-10 days does not mean it will grow sufficiently.....if the snake is fed nothing but pinky mice the entire time, and no gradual increase of prey size is done, then of course you will end up with a snake that is smaller than normal.

Originally Posted by DavidBeard

Also, it should be noted that just because someone is feeding a snake every 7-10 days does not mean it will grow sufficiently.....if the snake is fed nothing but pinky mice the entire time, and no gradual increase of prey size is done, then of course you will end up with a snake that is smaller than normal.

another excellent point I hadn't considered. Pinky mice to seem a bit small for "typical" 17 month old north american rat snake.
That seems like small prey item for a 17 month old corn snake.
and before Magic jumps on here and picks one little detail to fixate on and ignore all the relevant information, yes Magic, I know that corn snakes are a type of rat snake.

a slightly overhead picture inside a clear tote ok?

Yes, that would be good. Deli cup shots are good, but insufficient to compare with the original advertised shot.

Ironic since I basically shot myself in the foot by question a "fan favorite"

I'm not sure what you mean by "question a 'fan favorite' ", but don't worry about missing toes from an unintended, misdirected gun shot

I've followed this thread from the beginning and tend to lean toward a small 2012 common yellow rat ... just want to see a better whole body shot, if it's acceptable and obtainable.

I'll snap a few.
by fan favorite, I mean that everyone likes sunshine serpents, and there are a lot of people on fauna, Magic is a good example, that like to run people down if they say anything against the more popular breeders.
As far as the toes, with my finger problems, the last thing I need is to blow off a toe :P and I pride myself in safe firearms handling, LOL
pics soon

Well, I used the same camera I used for the other pics. The other pics were in direct sunlight since that's what Daniel said he takes outdoor pictures. In the pic I posted, she looks 100 percent color wise , like she does in real life.
Well, my wife is a photographer and suggested I tried her lights that she uses. So we got a couple out, and I got this picture

much better looking than in real life. so if I were the type to try to sell her, I'd know how to make her look better.
Now... back to the size isssue:
George - white sided eastern rat
sorry for the blurry pic, had to take the pic quickly, he wanted out


So Belt Loop- hatched august or september 2012 (don't know exact hatch date) = 17 or 18 months fed every 7 to 10 days live or FT pinkie, currently eating mice pinkies (hasn't eaten for me yet, just going by what Daniel told me) 19.3 inches long, 49 grams
George - hatched July 2012 = 19 months, fed once every wednesday, currently eating one FT rat pup 39.5 inches 261 grams
yes, there are variances in snakes, and in different breeds of north american rat snakes, but for a 1 to 2 month older snake to be 20 inches longer and 212 grams heavier? come on, you can't ignore that.

and to put things in perspective. The good pic I posted of Belt Loop makes her look not only brighter and more colorful, but bigger.
If you scale the picture so its the same as the one with George (look at the frosted circles on the bottom of the tub for size comparison)
look how much bigger those circles are than Belt, but how easily George could cover them up
So, yes, there are variances between yellow and black rats, and yes there are variances within the yellow rat species at a given age, but not THIS much.

Is there still anyone that thinks this snake is "normal" size for its age and that I shouldn't have been disappointingly surprised or that I shouldn't have expected it to be larger?

I have had no business with the company mentioned, but I can say that you seem to have glossed over something he said on the website. "Lone females, if available, will generally be higher in price" Explains the high price you were complaining about. You may have paid too much for it (I have no idea the prices on these guys), but that is your fault as the buyer. As for size: It may be a little small, but it is healthy. You were never told the size of the animal, and you bought it anyway. If he had told you the size of the animal and it was untrue, then it would be an issue. Here is a summary of how I see it: You asked about an animal and after some work you purchased it. There is no issue now that you have the snake. This doesn't matter anymore. You were in love with the snake pictured, which this snake appears to be. You never received an answer about size, and it is possible he missed that. We all make mistakes. He never told you anything about the animal that was untrue. You got the animal and decided it was too small. This shouldn't be an issue, it is the one you fell in love with. Accept the snake you love. Quit acting like he is a terrible person.

PM me if you disagree, otherwise I will most likely forget about this thread

Originally Posted by mr.dude

I have had no business with the company mentioned, but I can say that you seem to have glossed over something he said on the website. "Lone females, if available, will generally be higher in price" Explains the high price you were complaining about. You may have paid too much for it (I have no idea the prices on these guys), but that is your fault as the buyer. As for size: It may be a little small, but it is healthy. You were never told the size of the animal, and you bought it anyway. If he had told you the size of the animal and it was untrue, then it would be an issue. Here is a summary of how I see it: You asked about an animal and after some work you purchased it. There is no issue now that you have the snake. This doesn't matter anymore. You were in love with the snake pictured, which this snake appears to be. You never received an answer about size, and it is possible he missed that. We all make mistakes. He never told you anything about the animal that was untrue. You got the animal and decided it was too small. This shouldn't be an issue, it is the one you fell in love with. Accept the snake you love. Quit acting like he is a terrible person.

You have some interesting points, and I appreciate your post. I did see where his TOS said that about lone females generally being higher price. That is actually irrelevant. The price I am talking about is not about the cost difference between male and female, its about the cost difference between hatchling and yearling. I don't mind paying more for a female. The issue was about offering the female then not wanting to sell her once he had males come available.
As far as the size "a little small" . did you look at the comparison pictures. Have you read about the snakes actual size and weight. The snake is not a little small, it is unexpectedly and shockingly small.
We fell in love with a picture of the animal, a picture that was so inaccurate that some people questioned if it was even the snake. We were in love with what we were expecting to get, not what we actually got. So there is indeed an issue still.
The snake was so much smaller than would be normally expected that it should have been openly disclosed from the beginning. Even though we didn't wait to purchase until getting the information asked for... again, we were put on the spot and told we had to buy her THAT day if we wanted her. We weren't given time to wait for any more info. My fault for believing in the picture and trusting the snake would be not only what we expected but what the average person would expect as well. It's not the snake we fell in love with. The snake in the picture is vivid and bright, and almost jumps off the screen. The snake in real life is very bland by comparison. And YES, it makes a big difference that the snake as big around as a pencil.
I'm not saying he is a bad person, or a bad businessman. I'm saying THIS was a bad transaction. He obviously has a lot of experience and a HUGE following. That speaks volumes about him. But as you said, everyone makes mistakes. In this case, he made a few by the way he misrepresented the animal with an inaccurate photo. He made a mistake by changing the deal after it was made. and he made a mistake by not disclosing that the snake was closer to wild caught size than it is to what is generally expected from a CB.
Not a terrible person, just a terrible situation.

I appreciate your opinion on this and I'm sorry that I disagree