Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

Originally Posted by HiddenHollowHerp

Not positive it was Allen. Didn't see his name anywhere. Dunno what he looks like..

The table had a piece of folded tagboard (like a sign) that said "BIG DADDY" on it. I only assumed it was the same fella.

The table only had normal BPs.. No other herps of any kind. And they were all hatchlings in delicups without substrate/paper. I had come to the assumption that there were Midwest people selling Allen's critters for him. Maybe he'll comment, I dunno.

There is a market for cheap (ill, dying, inbred, etc.) hatchlings because inexperienced owners don't know what a healthy snake looks like. I can attest to this myself. My first snake was an imported BP hatchling. Mine was $126, but hell, I thought that was cheap! I didn't know anything about anything. This snake lived in a glass tank with a blanket and a (hotter than hell) infrared lamp. It was never done shedding.. It always had 3-4 sheds' worth of caps over its eyes, and I thought it was just fine and dandy!

When beginners see two snakes side by side, they haven't got a clue as to which one is healthier. They don't know the signs. With today's pets, people think every living thing needs to be on a diet. They see a well-fed snake next to a slender one, they take the slender one. They see a snake with 'prety blu eyez' and that's the first one they grab. What we need to work on is educating people as to what a healthy animal looks like. That way, there will be no market (for sick animals), because there will be no customers to support it.

...I have to apologize. That rant was completely irrelevent. Still.. I can't make myself delete it..

Unfortunately, we have a store here in Austin Texas that makes their money on these kind of ignorant people.

Originally Posted by RJK890

As long as he is accurately representing his animals, who cares?

So does that apply to when he was selling normals as hets?

Originally Posted by HiddenHollowHerp

My first snake was an imported BP hatchling. Mine was $126, but hell, I thought that was cheap! I didn't know anything about anything. This snake lived in a glass tank with a blanket and a (hotter than hell) infrared lamp. It was never done shedding.. It always had 3-4 sheds' worth of caps over its eyes, and I thought it was just fine and dandy!

When beginners see two snakes side by side, they haven't got a clue as to which one is healthier. They don't know the signs. With today's pets, people think every living thing needs to be on a diet. They see a well-fed snake next to a slender one, they take the slender one. They see a snake with 'prety blu eyez' and that's the first one they grab. What we need to work on is educating people as to what a healthy animal looks like. That way, there will be no market (for sick animals), because there will be no customers to support it.

For the most part I have just been a lurker here on the BOI to stay up to date on all of the good and bad situations out there. But this part of this post in particular just really got to me. To classify "beginners" so generally as being that completely naive, ignorant and down right stupid is entirely off base.
Yes unfortunately 90+% of beginners out there are just that stupid, but to correct the statement it should be most beginners. I for one, at 10 years old no less, was no where near that stupid. The day I decided I had to have my first BP I did months of research prior to my purchase, built my own enclosure(with my dad's help), and made sure to have everything setup and tested prior to purchase, and no this was not because of parents with any knowledge of reptiles, or the fact that they didn't think I could handle it. Which is why today, that snake is still alive and healthy.
Starting out as you did, as a "beginner", I really feel sorry for that snake. It is good to admit to ignorant mistakes but playing it as lightly as you seemed to in that post just irks me. That type of behavior is far from excusable no matter what the circumstances. Age or previous experience matter not, simple research and education by ones own choice of any subject matter shouldn't be the exception, but the standard.
I hope by now you, or anyone else that started out as that type of beginner, have learned to research and prepare far prior to making purchases on a species they have not dealt with prior.

But just take this post as it is, a simple opinion.

LOL. Lady, what makes you think I didn't do research? I was not a wealthy kid growing up, and even now, this computer is probably worth more than my house.

That was far from a simple opinion. That was insulting.

A man at the petshop told me I should buy a snake. I went in looking for a pet that was easy to take care of, and affordable with my $150 from my birthday (still the best birthday ever). He said to me, "This snake just lives in a box with some blankets. He's really easy to take care of. Just feed him mice." He was in a cardboard box with a light inside of it. He was hiding in a pillowcase. No substrate.

When I took him home, he had newspaper on the floor of his tank and a fleece blanket. He also had a rock cave with a basking surface. The light was way too hot though, and the humidity was ridiculously low. But, compared to the petshop, I'd say it was an improvement. Atleast he had a water dish.

When we got our computer, the first thing I did was google for pictures of ball pythons. That was when I learned.

Patch lives with a friend of mine who used to breed balls, and stopped (because of the abundancy of neglected snakes in the country) "he" is a lovely female ball python living in a massive enclosure with all of the love and care she will ever need.

Don't try to tell me I'm a terrible pet owner. I cried for a week straight, day and night, when I gave my first snake up. And guess what, I made that decision on my own, and even though it broke my heart, I'd do it again a hundred times.

I did not state anywhere in my reply that you were a "terrible pet owner". I stated that classifying all first time snake owners by using an example of yourself, and all of the things you did wrong, was an off assumption. You stated your first time you made a lot of mistakes, I agree, and I would say the same about anyone else that does the same thing. And research 10 years ago didn't require a computer, and at the time I didn't own one either, at least not with an internet connection. Library's were around though and entirely free, that and the school library is where I did my research as a beginner. Money is no excuse, I paid a total of $40 for my first bp, and the rest of the small amount of money went towards the heating and lighting of the cage.
And of course, again, I agree that having to give up an animal is horrible and I would cry too.
I'm sorry you took my opinion as an attack on you, but I plainly stated that I didn't like the way that you used the whole example of what you did as a description of all beginners, because it is entirely false that every single beginner is going to make the same mistakes that you did, that is where my issue with the statement was, not the choices you made in the care itself.
I'm fully aware of how many others make those mistakes so going off on a rant targeting you for making them would be asinine. Which is why I prefaced the entire post with "To classify "beginners" so generally as being that completely naive, ignorant and down right stupid is entirely off base." because that is the part of the post I took issue with.

If you find a library within 100 miles of this town, I will catch you a unicorn.

Deal?

Money is a reason, but never an excuse. In my case, even if I'd had money, I doubt it would have hopped into my lap and told me everything I needed to know about my pet.

Computers were available ten years ago, and convertables are available now, but that doesn't mean everyone can afford to buy one, darling.

I'd have to agree that not all beginners are uninformed, but most of them really are to start out with. Thank God most of them are also rich kids with multiple computers, high-speed internet, and alot of time on their hands.

Originally Posted by HiddenHollowHerp

I was not a wealthy kid growing up, and even now, this computer is probably worth more than my house.

I do understand your passion for this hobby, but it seems you're wasting an awful lot of your time on the wrong things if by what you're stating above is totally true. If my home was in such disrepair, to the extent that my computer was worth more than it, I wouldn't be spending a great deal of time and money collecting animals as my hobby and posting on forums. I would be trying to get things sorted in the priority and order of importance. The last thing I think I would need were animals to be dependent on me when my whole house was falling down around me. Needless to say, if I were not wealthy, I wouldn't need animals that could become sick and require veterinarian care that I truly could not afford.

And before you get upset with other peoples opinions you need to understand that most of it comes from experience and they are only trying to help. You're 20 years old, some people have furniture older than you.

Originally Posted by HiddenHollowHerp

If you find a library within 100 miles of this town, I will catch you a unicorn.

I'd have to agree that not all beginners are uninformed, but most of them really are to start out with. Thank God most of them are also rich kids with multiple computers, high-speed internet, and alot of time on their hands.

WTF is Minnesota a third world country?

How on earth do you know how old I am? (Probably a stupid question, I'm just curious).

I've got money in the bank which I recently inherited from someone very, very important to me. I was told to spend it carefully, so I decided against the condo in Hawaii (although I will admit, it's not THAT much money).

You're probably right about people trying to help me, but if you haven't noticed, I have some sort of freakish barrier in my head which prevents me from thinking that anyone other than me is correct.. About everything.

What is this thread about again? Oh yeah.
SO HOW ABOUT THAT ALLEGED HULLABALOO WITH ED & JOHN?

Scandalous~

Hey, I can try to be as un-insulting and mature as possible, but I know most people would prefer not to be told that someone disagrees with something they say. I didn't expect any different. But I think I've explained my point well enough. And thank you Chuck, that was most of the point I was trying to get across.