Chaos Reptiles and Pet Supply, Dan Peck and Josh Stone

Originally Posted by Docmurder

Honestly Dave, I dont do business with you nor have i ever and from what is seems you are usually a stand up guy.

Well, when a stand up guy informs an intelligent person that the people they are dealing with are dishonest it would make sense to listen to him. Obviously you are not listening or just not intelligent.

Originally Posted by Docmurder

I think that you should let this go and stop putting up your signs. you have been paid whether it took the forum posting or not they made it right. Dan has offered to rectify the situation with the gecko and I'm sure that he would take the gecko back and give him cash for it and probably would have the second they found out it had a problem.

When the surgeon general puts warning labels on their foreheads or they change their ways I’ll let this go. I do not foresee either happening so I guess my sign and I will continue our tour of the Midwest. Again, they both need to learn to shut their mouths about me, period. Continuing to badmouth me is the equivalent of poking a bear. Don’t come running to me complaining when you’ve got bear’s attention after being warned not to poke the bear.

You may want to go back and read (obviously for the first time) the description of events pertaining to the gecko. A refund was not offered when Jim brought it to Josh’s attention. The only thing offered “the second they found out “ was piss poor advice that the gecko was fine and could still be bred.

As for Dan, Dan offers a lot and follows through with very little to none. It is my understanding that Jim had e-mailed Dan and has NOT received any reply back. As for Chaos taking the gecko back, I do not think Jim would subject the animal to the probability of further abuse or death or the likely scenario of the gecko being resold to someone else. They were unable to care for the gecko before be it ignorance or laziness and the chances of their husbandry skills improving or their laziness lessening are both unlikely. Not to mention, I have seen on at least 2 different occasions when someone came back to the shop with a dead animal and their reluctance to refund any money whatsoever. Store credit or the replacement of the dead animal with another animal that has had the same neglect is not making good on anything.

Originally Posted by Docmurder

Dan and Josh are well aware that they were struggling with the new store and have been making changes and have more plans to make things easier on them and streamline the business. it is not my place to tell you what their plans are but I believe they are attempting to take all the right steps to get their business where they want it to be.

Better late then never but after seeing how they have handled this I believe they will continue to cut corners, lie to their customers, suppliers and helpers like you yourself and run their business into the ground. They are both dishonest and dishonesty and running a business just doesn’t mix. Misrepresenting animals cannot be excused but Dan and Josh as well as the few Chaos supporters like yourself who have replied have overlooked or disregarded this fact entirely. Just as they (you) have ignored the facts that not only have they sold misrepresented and unhealthy animals but they were the cause of the animal’s unsatisfactory conditions.

Originally Posted by Docmurder

I have done business with Dan and Josh I vend with Josh at the Indy show just about every time. I see how they do business and I enjoy working with them and doing business with them. They have owed me money in the past and i have been paid.

You are being used and until your usefulness stops they will be your best of friends. I’m guessing that you are they guy who works for table space. The same person I saw working while Josh sat and counted the money or attempted to look busy with minor things like folding the table cloths, versus moving or packing anything of substance. I have heard of you and it just tickles Josh pink that you are willing to work only for table space.

Originally Posted by Docmurder

Also from knowing Dan and Josh I doubt that they would purposely write you a bad check and it was an isolated incident relating to the financial troubles of starting a new business.

I’m sorry but if you actually believe that or think anyone else believes it then you are a complete idiot.

Originally Posted by Docmurder

it didn't take posting signs on tables and it didn't take a BOI post. all it took was communication and maybe a little understanding. Personally I dislike the way that you hang on to your anger and I don't think that i will ever buy from you because simply it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Sorry but communication is a two way street and when dealing with liars, communication and understanding can only go so far when one is being honest and the other is lying. Had Dan said to me (like he did the previous week) that he didn’t have the money, here’s $20 bucks, can I catch up with you later, things would have been a lot different, but he chose to KNOWINGLY lie to me and write me a bad check. Since you didn’t bother to read the previous posts, he did this after already writing Neil a bad check the week prior. So your claim of this being an isolated incident is obviously untrue/incorrect.

I’m sorry but you seem to be parroting Josh and Dan about “my anger”. I am disappointed about how they treated me and how they lied to me. The only thing that angers me is their continual bad mouthing of me. I go out of my way to help these two losers and I get written a bad check and I’m the bad guy for trying to make sure that someone else doesn’t get taken advantage of as I (or Neil) was.

I guess if you’d rather purchase from known and admitted liars and cheats versus someone who is a “stand up guy” that understands and practices proper animal husbandry and doesn’t misrepresent his animals it speaks more of your character (or lack there of) then you obviously realize. I am not in the need of customers with questionable character and do my best to avoid such ilk.

Originally Posted by Docmurder

I think you need to make a post saying that Dan and Josh have rectified the situation and are now in good standing with you and then leave it at that.

I think Josh and Dan need to come and (truthfully) answer the questions that were asked here and be men and admit to the wrong doings they have done and that they will correct their mistakes and then we can all move on.


Had they both kept or would now keep their mouths shut versus talking crap about me and trying to make it everyone else’s fault but their own for their current situation things would not be where they are. They, not I will determine when this stops. As I wrote to Dan in my e-mails prior to even posting this thread, pay me what you owe me (yes, that was done), leave me alone and move on (yet to be done). They did not heed my advice and are now complaining after being well warned in advance.

Originally Posted by Docmurder

I was informed of the existence of this post by Josh and I formed my own unbiased opinion relative to my business dealings with Dan and Josh and what I see here.

You have formed an uneducated biased opinion from what I see here. Your minimalism or excusing of their actions shows your ignorance. You have worked with them for a few hours a month while I have worked with them for hours a day for a number of months and I have witnessed many, many things that I do not deem as acceptable business practices. If others saw what I have seen their opinions would not differ from mine unless they possessed the same disregard for honesty or animal’s well being as Chaos has shown me they possess.

Originally Posted by Docmurder

Whether you like Dan and Josh or not i am neither and you do not know me so don't try to make guesses about my character or animal husbandry.

I do not have to make any guesses about your character or animal husbandry your post has removed any doubt whatsoever.

I sent Dan a message on February 5th and have not heard anything back.
Dave is right i would not give my gecko back. The money isn't the point of my frustration.

Well if Chaos was hoping to vend the All Cleveland show again in the future you would think sending Dan's little girlfriend to the show with fliers promoting their new shop while saying their prices were better than anyone vending the show would have been bad idea. That coupled with the post they had on CraigsList (so much for the computer issues yet again) stating the same (sorry it was taken down or flagged before I could get a copy or screen shot of it). Well, it seems that Chaos is bound and determined to have more and more signs displayed about them. The latest was displayed at the show this past weekend:

The Cleveland Reptile show does not endorse or have any affiliation with Chaos Reptiles.

I can't quite figure out Dan's girlfriend either. The last time I brought crickets to their shop she was there (the only one there) and she asked me what their price was for crickets. I told here and she told me that Dan had charged her $14.50 for 500 crickets (that's my selling price for 1,000 at shows). So it appears Dan will rip anyone off. Yet she is still hanging around these two clowns and doing their dirty work they are too cowardly or just too damn lazy to do theirselves. I wonder if they will send her to the Akron show in their place again this time. Well nonetheless I'll be there with my sign no matter who shows up.

I hope the picture she took of my sign on Sunday came out for her.

chaos (n.)
1. A condition or place of great disorder or confusion.
2. A disorderly mass; a jumble: The desk was a chaos of papers and unopened letters.
3. often Chaos The disordered state of unformed matter and infinite space supposed in some cosmogonic views to have existed before the ordered universe.
4. Mathematics A dynamical system that has a sensitive dependence on its initial conditions.
5. Obsolete An abyss; a chasm.


At least they got the name right.

Dave-
I am assuming that when you refer to "Dan's girlfriend" that you are referring to me. I find it interesting that the flyers were making their way around the show long before I even showed up there. Maybe this is because it was Brenna that was passing them out at the front door, NOT me.
Next, I am no longer your customer for two reasons:
1. You aren't doing this out of the "goodness of your heart" to warn other people. You are trying to bring down their business, which no, that does not affect me, but it affects my friend and I don't appreciate it.
2. Dan sells me much better crickets for a much better price.
And now that it's established that I am no longer your customer, please do not call me soliciting my business. It would be much appreciated if you lost my number.
As far as me working at the shop for them, it is not for the reasons that you claim. As you know, Dan snow plows in the winter and Josh has gotten another job to help pay the bills. If Dan needed to snow plow and Josh was working at his other job, then I would help them out and work at the shop. I'm sure you will bring up the fact that sometimes I was working there when it wasn't snowing. So before you say anything, I will mention that sometimes Dan was able to find some work on the side to earn a little extra money and I would work at the shop so he could do it.
As far as vending the shows for them, Josh had another job and Dan had the shop. No matter what, someone had to be at the shop. For the Akron show, since it was the first time the show was put on, I wanted to check it out. Since I was already going to be there I told Dan that I would vend it for him.
I would like to go back a post or two and bring up what you said here:
"As I wrote to Dan in my e-mails prior to even posting this thread, pay me what you owe me (yes, that was done), leave me alone and move on (yet to be done). "
You acknowledged that they have paid you. As for leaving you alone, why don't you tell everyone on here the last time they contacted you? They have left you alone. And move on? They've moved on. Everyone on here can see that you haven't.
And also what you said here:
"The only thing that angers me is their continual bad mouthing of me."
We both know that if they were bad mouthing you, I would have heard it. I haven't heard a thing. They don't talk about you. This may come as a shock but their world does not revolve around you and you aren't on their minds 24/7.
By the way, I didn't take a picture of your sign. We all know what it looks like. You weren't shy about posting it here.
It's also obvious that you wait until this thread is on the second or third page before you post again to bump it back up.
The last thing I have to say is you better apologize for dragging me into this. I wasn't the one passing out the flyers and that was a flat out lie. And as far as everything else, I help out a friend who is trying to get this business up and running. There's nothing wrong with that and I can't believe you have the nerve to think it is for any other reason.

James-
You didn't say anything to me about the gecko at the Akron show. I had no idea about the gecko situation, but since there was nothing I could personally do about it I understand that you didn't mention it to me.
From what I understand, Dan was aware that Josh was selling someone a gecko but did not know which gecko or even who was buying it. When you brought the gecko back after noticing that there was something wrong with it, Josh was there. I guess Josh didn't mention this to Dan because it seems like this thread is the first he heard of it. Dan hasn't mentioned anything about receiving an email from you and if you haven't heard back from him, he probably didn't get it. I will PM you his cell phone number and you can get a hold of him any time.

It's also obvious that you wait until this thread is on the second or third page before you post again to bump it back up.

Did you notice that this thread was dead for a while until James posted a reply. I think he did this only because he decided to check this thread out again and saw something he thought he'd reply to. James, please correct me if I'm wrong. Franz, please do not take this as me talking for James. It is just what it looks like.

When you brought the gecko back after noticing that there was something wrong with it, Josh was there. I guess Josh didn't mention this to Dan because it seems like this thread is the first he heard of it.

I do have to ask this. Dan stated earlier in this thread that he handles the care end while Josh handles the business end. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. If Josh doesn't know that much about the animals and is still learning, as was sadi earlier in this thread, why wouldn't he bring it up to the person who does know what to do with the animals when James brought it back?

66% Het Cinnamon...ROFLMFAO! I have only owned my ball for about a year and a half, and only really studied up the genetics on them for maybe the last 6 mos or so when I wanted to start breeding my boy, and admittedly, some of the more colorful euphemisms for morphs make my head swim (Silver Streak, 8-Ball? Ugh!), but even at my novice level, I know that there is no such thing as "het Cinny"! Next they'll be selling "het Fires" & "het Pastels"! LOL Maybe 'Chaos' needs to pull their heads out of the clouds and stop living "way up there" and start living down here with the rest of us! $250,000 a year? Not at THIS rate!
Anyway, good thread! Very "Days of Our Lives"! (Better, actually, I *hate* soaps!) It's taken me all of about two hours to read (and then start skimming) all of it, but so worth it! :P

$250,000 a year

Thanks for bringing this up... If they really do make that much, as their myspace as I believe it was says, why would they need to take up extra jobs that keep them from the shop?

Originally Posted by bfranz

Dave-
I am assuming that when you refer to "Dan's girlfriend" that you are referring to me. I find it interesting that the flyers were making their way around the show long before I even showed up there. Maybe this is because it was Brenna that was passing them out at the front door, NOT me.

I see. I was misinformed. I guessed it was you this month seeing as you were the one soliciting for their shop at the last show (makes sense though, if I had the choice between Brenna or you to pass out flyers Brenna would have been my choice too. Guess Dan didn’t cut her loose after she failed to open the shop for him as he claimed he was going to do). When I saw you stopped in front of my table (strangely enough in front of my sign with your phone out pushing buttons and looking up at my sign and back at your phone I could only guess you were taking a picture) I thought you must have run out of flyers (I could have given you a bunch of them since quite a few people thought it funny to give them to me).

I guess you are back to being errand girl then. I can only guess Dan paid you for the animals you picked up at the January show for him. If you don’t recall you were worried that he was going to come up with some excuse not to have the money and you were worried since you had to borrow the money from your mom. I hope you had enough sense not to take a check.

Originally Posted by bfranz

Next, I am no longer your customer for two reasons:
1. You aren't doing this out of the "goodness of your heart" to warn other people. You are trying to bring down their business, which no, that does not affect me, but it affects my friend and I don't appreciate it.
2. Dan sells me much better crickets for a much better price.
And now that it's established that I am no longer your customer, please do not call me soliciting my business. It would be much appreciated if you lost my number.

1. I do not have to try to bring down their business they are doing a bang up job doing that themselves and do not need any help from me. If I am to believe you and the rest of their bleating sheep, I mean supporters that they have turned things around and are now doing things they way they should have all along I am helping their business. It is unfortunate that it took me starting this thread and bringing it to everyone’s attention for the two of them to turn things around and do things properly. Some people just don’t work well without supervision and sometimes need the extra attention in order for them to do the job right.

2. If you want me or anyone else here to believe you, you may want to start off by telling the truth but with the present company you are keeping (you know when in Rome) it is no wonder you are having difficulties stating the truth. Or were you meaning the quality of their crickets has improved? Have they finally realized that you have to have a food and water source for the crickets? So he isn’t selling you 500 crickets for $14.50 any more? I’m glad to hear it. It was a rather large mark up on his behalf I thought. Well, when your critters are going hungry you’ll only have Dan to blame.


Soliciting huh? My customers seem to rather enjoy having me call to see if they are in need of crickets. Some of which have rather busy schedules and the reminder is appreciated. Some of these very same people were former customers of Chaos. It’s called customer service and is obviously something you are not accustomed to seeing with the current company you are keeping.

Well, seeing as you are no longer my customer then there should be no reason whatsoever for you to be stopping in front of my table not taking pictures. Please refrain from loitering in front of my table in the future.

Originally Posted by bfranz

As far as me working at the shop for them, it is not for the reasons that you claim. As you know, Dan snow plows in the winter and Josh has gotten another job to help pay the bills. If Dan needed to snow plow and Josh was working at his other job, then I would help them out and work at the shop. I'm sure you will bring up the fact that sometimes I was working there when it wasn't snowing. So before you say anything, I will mention that sometimes Dan was able to find some work on the side to earn a little extra money and I would work at the shop so he could do it.

Since you have such issue with the amount of time it takes for me to reply I won’t bother to reply to the above drivel. I just do not have the time to respond in a timely manner when I have to untwist or inform you of what is reality and what is a farce. The smilies I inserted above should give you an idea as to how much posting that would have been.

Originally Posted by bfranz

As far as vending the shows for them, Josh had another job and Dan had the shop. No matter what, someone had to be at the shop. For the Akron show, since it was the first time the show was put on, I wanted to check it out. Since I was already going to be there I told Dan that I would vend it for him.

I see they have implemented a new policy? Certainly it was not what was happening previously. Which one of them took the credit for coming up with that idea?

And I suppose you were planning on checking out the Taylor Michigan show the month when Dan wanted me to bring their mite infested animals up to the show for them and I didn’t? Guess you wanted to check out Columbus too, you remember the last time Chaos was represented at the Columbus show.

Originally Posted by bfranz

I would like to go back a post or two and bring up what you said here:
"As I wrote to Dan in my e-mails prior to even posting this thread, pay me what you owe me (yes, that was done), leave me alone and move on (yet to be done). "
You acknowledged that they have paid you. As for leaving you alone, why don't you tell everyone on here the last time they contacted you? They have left you alone. And move on? They've moved on. Everyone on here can see that you haven't.
And also what you said here:
"The only thing that angers me is their continual bad mouthing of me."
We both know that if they were bad mouthing you, I would have heard it. I haven't heard a thing. They don't talk about you. This may come as a shock but their world does not revolve around you and you aren't on their minds 24/7.
By the way, I didn't take a picture of your sign. We all know what it looks like. You weren't shy about posting it here.
It's also obvious that you wait until this thread is on the second or third page before you post again to bump it back up.

So you spend every waking moment with both Dan and Josh now?

I’m sorry that I am not posting quick enough for your likes but I have been rather busy doing back-to-back shows for the past 3 weekends and have not had an off weekend since the first week in February. That and having to uncup and feed and water all the critters (you see I don’t keep mine cupped up for over a week like I have witnessed done there), place and fill orders for my customers and the fact that my back is screwed up and sitting here to post about these two clowns is a literal pain in the ass. I would also like to say that I do not have a laptop with wireless capabilities like someone else who claimed to have limitations to internet access all the while posting on MySpace. I’ll try and post quicker so as to not keep the three of you guys waiting. Though you may want to take note that on any given day a thread could get pushed to the second page in under 12 hours but with your 1 post and 8 month membership here I’m sure you are well versed with the way things here on Fauna work.

Originally Posted by bfranz

The last thing I have to say is you better apologize for dragging me into this. I wasn't the one passing out the flyers and that was a flat out lie. And as far as everything else, I help out a friend who is trying to get this business up and running. There's nothing wrong with that and I can't believe you have the nerve to think it is for any other reason.

As was I before you were even in the picture. The only difference is you appear to enjoy getting screwed by Dan.

Dan has re-joined Fauna (7/7/09) as Chaos Reptiles (previously known as "chaosad") Just in case someone new comes along and can't put two and two together.