Disturbing......

I agree. I don't have a huge problem with hybrids per se, although I tend to be a locality freak. The problem is when unscrupulous people sell them as pure forms.



those people should be castrated.

what about the people who dont know... and they see this snake wow its a really neat knob... but in reality its a knob integrade or knob hyvrid or whatever and they start breeding to their existing knobs... well then there goes the frigon hene pool... for the most part its not the producers (but some are uneducated and do it just so they can say they bred something... you know to justify it) but who's hands it gets into after that... it is the breeders moral reponsibility to think of the future consicuences of their frankenstein.... not the second hand or even the third hand buyer

My personal feelings about hybrids is, ick. If others want to do it (responsibly) I don't really have a strong argument against it. But they don't interest me, they make me sad.

in the mean time im gonna look up the cost of a plane ticket to afghanastan

i looked up a roundtrip flight to Kabul, Afghanastan from Oakland.

Apparently there is somethings going on over there and they have "no flights available". maybe they just dont want us catching their leopard geckos...lol.

Originally Posted by Golden Gate Geckos

I'll probably start a riot, but I feel that it's just not right. If two distinctively separate species from completely different hemishpheres and environmental climates on the earth are purposefully interbred in order to create 'hybrids', it could potentially be cruel and inhumane to any offspring that could result. Their physiological require!

They might turn out like that dude in the movie "The Fly".

Don't be pukin' on my donuts . . . .

I just wanted to add my .02 on Ben Bowsers stumpy tail... even though the thread has wandered in and out of topic!
He lives here in PHX. No one had heard of him till he tried doing a show... and that was his last show. He seems to have a mother that is willing to spend $$$ on getting geckos from Urban and Albey's (which is just fine and dandy) but after talking to him for 15 minutes or so I learned that he doesn't seem to know much about geckos except for the extreme basics.
He told me he was starting a website soon which he did. After about 1-2 months I noticed he had listed on his site "pure bred hypo tangerine carrot tails." Now, being the nice guy I am, I emailed him and told him of his mistake that there is simply no such thing. He took it down but no return dialog... not even a simple thanks ( I guess I shouldn't have bothered being a nice guy.)
Not sure of what the bearing of all that is but I figured people might wanna know...

As for the stumpy tail being a genetic defect or not, I got 2 geckos from when I bought the remainder of Walkabout Reptiles. I will not breed those geckos and the breeding group in which they came from has been decommisioned after last year due to the higher amounts of deformities that came from that group. There were many eyelid probs and a couple of other tail issues. They are now seperated from a male and shall remain that way... I don't want to be responsible for crap inching it's way into the populations and I feel anyone else who has the same issues should feel the same.

As for the stumpy tail being a genetic defect or not, I got 2 geckos from when I bought the remainder of Walkabout Reptiles. I will not breed those geckos and the breeding group in which they came from has been decommisioned after last year due to the higher amounts of deformities that came from that group. There were many eyelid probs and a couple of other tail issues. They are now seperated from a male and shall remain that way... I don't want to be responsible for crap inching it's way into the populations and I feel anyone else who has the same issues should feel the same.

okay. you win. THAT is freakin disturbing. so what was the cause of these deformities? how many animals were bred to the p1 before this deformity trend was caught. how many f1 and f2 babies have made there way into the hobbies gene pool? you say the parent stock is from walkabout? were they trying to breed "stumpy" tails?

Wow. I wish my mom and dad would buy geckos for me. They would never have done that, even when I was in high school. Heck, I had to work my butt off all summer and part of the winter and spring just to buy my first car (1968 Mustang, I miss her). Some people have it so good LOL.

Anyway.. as far as the deformities, Gene will correct me if I am wrong, but he was probably getting them from a group of geckos that had been inbred for several years. Some of the big leo breeders seem to have something against introducing new blood and outcrossing. One of them actually asked me "why in the world I would want to flush 20 years of selective breeding down the toilet" by introducing an unrelated bloodline to his line.

I have no clue as to whether or not any were ever sold and I am pretty sure they weren't trying for this, they did point out a couple of the full grown offspring to me when I bought the stock. They did not tell me that they were being thrown by a particular group, I learned it on my own. All of the stock that bred this deformity did not leave here, in fact most of them became Ackie food sad to say.
I will see if I still have some pics around of them but I think they were all on my old computer which got a virus and is now sitting at the bottom of a closet since I didn't feel like messing with it.

Originally Posted by KelliH

Anyway.. as far as the deformities, Gene will correct me if I am wrong, but he was probably getting them from a group of geckos that had been inbred for several years. Some of the big leo breeders seem to have something against introducing new blood and outcrossing. One of them actually asked me "why in the world I would want to fluch 20 years of selective breeding down the toilet" by introducing an unrelated bloodline to his line.

I have no way of knowing since the only records were the breeding group and hatch dates on the container in which the geckos reside. I don't know who they came from or even how long they had these geckos.
Marcia might remember me telling her at the Anaheim NARBC show how dismayed I was about the whole transaction and how I felt screwed... I didn't get the opportunity to go into complete detail since she was vending (and I was only sightseeing for once!), she was busy and I didn't want to take away sales by being a distraction.

All of the stock that bred this deformity did not leave here, in fact most of them became Ackie food sad to say.

i.m.o. that should have been the fate of them all.