Where is.....

Originally Posted by ms_terese

I think Wes moved on long before many of the others affected by his banning did

aint that the truth.... lol

Originally Posted by shrap

Honest question Rich,

Why do you always think people outside your little clique (sorry, had to bring that word back, it has been a while) are playing a game with you or just trying to give you a hard time? I know there is a fair share that just like to give you a hard time at every turn, but not all of us are that way.

I was being serious for once (hard to believe, I know). I would never sell out my beliefs or principles for any amount of money. Those are the things that make us who we are at the core of our being.

Maybe you were just just joking around when you said that about the cash.... that or I have mistakenly placed you too high on a pedestal. I can see having a change of heart or just changing your mind about Wes...... but not putting money before principle.

Gee, I wasn't aware that I had my very own clique! You mean like "webslave groupies"?

Well I think if I were smart, I would save a link to this thread as a perfect example of a "damned if I do, and damned if I don't" scenario.

This was a business solution, as suggested by Nicolai, and has nothing to do with principles or beliefs at all. WHY do you think I banned Wes? Do you seriously think I did so because I BELIEVED he is a bad person? Do you think I banned him because I don't LIKE him? Do you think my banning him had anything at all to do with some sort of deep rooted PRINCIPLES based on ethics or some other quasi-voodoo based reason? No, it was a BUSINESS decision based on the fact that he was being disruptive of what I felt was the hoped for smooth running of this site. From indications I have seen from people posting complaints here, people are being chased away from this site because of that kind of disruption and antagonism caused by certain members (or ex-members, in this case). People were telling me that they did not like the disruption, antagonism, and bs that some people were injecting into this site. So as a business decision, I think it behooved me to pay attention to what they were saying. Because you know what? I agreed with them. So I took steps to change that.

So tell me, as a person looking at this in a business sense, is it real smart of me to allow a disruptive member to chase away potentially paying members because of his actions? I AM trying to run this as a business, you know, or is that unethical in some people's eyes as well? Perhaps you don't recall the early days of this site, but at that time I SPECIFICALLY targeted this site and what it was all about towards the BUSINESS aspects of the herpetoculture segment of business.

So now the "damned if I do, and damned if I don't" dilemma. I was being damned soundly by a few people here because of my decision to ban Wes based on his actions (which are PLAINLY verifiable on his warning points listing). Although I am not certain what sort of actions it would have taken from Wes for them to agree, nonetheless, that decision fell squarely on my shoulders and I did what needed to be done, based on all of the evidence available. Certainly there are sites out there that will likely be more tolerant, and certainly others even less so. I did what I felt was best for THIS site.

So, after reading through this thread, and the recommendations offered, I decided I would accept the proposal of changing the outright ban to a VERY STIFF fine instead, and yet I get damned for that one as well. Which I knew darn right well would happen, but I figured I would see who would take the bait and run with it.

I would have been REAL surprised if that hadn't happened.......

But the offer does stand. As a BUSINESS decision, yes, I am willing to put up with people who deserve to be banned permanently for a $1,000 fine instead. You are not required to agree with it, but at least the people who feel adamant about Wes getting a raw deal have a method to do something about it now. Heck, with the older warning system, Wes would have been fined $320 anyway........

Sammy, this is not meant to be derogatory in any way, but I swear you sound a lot like the kind of people my younger brother used to hang out with in the 70s. You know, free love, down with the man, capitalism is a bummer, that sort of thing........ I thought they all went the way of the dodo bird when they figured out it doesn't pay the bills. Even the communes of years past became businesses.

Yes, this site is a BUSINESS. You can take that however way you see fit, but your perspective of how you think the world should be is not going to change that at all.

And sorry, but I have no desire to be on anyone's pedestal at all. I just run this website. That's it as far as everyone here is concerned. And it is REALLY nothing special at all. Matter of fact, at times it is a huge pain in the ass. But I still keep at it trying to do the best I can no matter how many minority opinions believe otherwise. When people stop coming to this site, then I will know that I was on the wrong track. And really, what is going to be the down side if that happens?

Will Wes go along with this? Really my dear, I just don't give a damn either way.

Hey it was worth a shot

I was wrong Rich. I do often forget that this site is a business for you and not just a community service for us. So my apologies for once again not taking my own blinders off when looking at a situation.

And yep... guilty as charged. I was born in 1968 so that might give you an idea of the upbringing I had.... my goodness, every childs nightmare just came true for me. I HAVE BECOME MY PARENTS...... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo

I also think that Cris K's remarks were a little sarcastic and uncalled for but i am not going to hit him for a bad post on the karma system just because i disagree with him and his remarks. I will say this though, I will gladly pony up 20.00 via paypal to help get WES reinstated, He was always a good friend to me and a lot of other people, even when he stomped on me at times when I deserved it i knew he was doing it for the right reasons. Shrap, why do you think Rich would be selling out. Do you think any business man would turn down a deal like that?? You telling me you would? Be realistic. Rich needs money to keep this site up and going and anything that helps the site stay here is a good thing. Is it that you didnt like WES in the first place?
I could pull up atleast 50 posts that he was the driving force in flushing out the bad guys in a lot of deals. Sure he had a hard time understanding what rich was doing a lot of times and felt that there was unequal treatment going on but all of us have felt that way one time or another even you Shrap. Remember this:

Originally Posted by shrap

Good call Jim.

Everytime a failure of duty from the Admin or Mod team is brought up there is always an excuse ("if you expect us to read every post" etc, etc.) or a complete dismissal of it.

Just once I would love to hear an honest response like "yep we dropped the ball on that one" or even "thanks for bringing that to our attention". Instead of the complete and total lack of accountability and responsibility that has been displayed thus far.

AND WHEN RICH WAS OFFERING PEOPLE THAT DONATE MORE TO THE SITE AND HELP OUT FINANCIALLY YOU WERE ALL FOR IT.

Originally Posted by Webslave

Originally Posted by WebSlave
I am open to suggestions on how to make this work. I tried a forum at one time open to contributors only, but it didn't take off. Is the time ripe now to give it a whirl again? On the CornSnakes forums I have an "Insiders" forum that is open only to Contributors, and it seems to work pretty well. Perhaps in conjunction with the limited access classifieds section it will gel together well. Insider information on special offerings in the works or just something someone may want to make public but in a small dose to a limited audience.

Originally Posted by shrap

I like the idea Rich.... you also have a lot more "Contributors" now than you did before.

And the person that helped Wes over the edge and get banned you didnt seem to fond of yourself:

Originally Posted by shrap

Dennis, if you hate it hear so much then why not just leave? I am truly not trying to be a jerk towards you. Just dont understand your presence here. I mean you wont ever find me at the opera... I dont like the opera, but I am not going to go there and piss on their parade just because I dont like them.

Why is it now that Rich is offering something that will help the site out financially you are on a ethics or morals tangent.Is it solely the fact that it is WES that we are talking about?

You got it all wrong Nic. My initial feelings had nothing to do with who this particular situation was about. I consider Wes a friend and a person I truly respect and miss having around here and feel the site is not whole without him.

It was just the principle of the matter to me..... but in this case my objections were completely unfounded.

No problem Sammy, I just wanted to know where you stood, Also I will change my previous offer. I will pony up the first 40.00 towards his reinstatement. With Chris K's offer of 20.00 that only leaves $940.00 to go.

Be it known that there may be at most 5 other individuals on this site that i would do this for. I consider a lot of people here as friends but there are a limited few that I would give up money for to keep them here. Hell there are even some that I would help pay to get rid of.

This thread is pissing me off so bad that I am actually fighting the urge to say something that might get me banned... permanently! Rich, it seems you are back on your "damned if I do, damned if I don't" pity pot, we have 'kids' squabbling "I know you are, but what am I?", and once again arguing over ways Rich can make money for this website. If I were Wes I'd be rolling around on the floor laughing at this new reality show "Survivor - Fauna Classifieds".

These dramas are getting boring. I am going to put this thread on IGNORE.

I see your still here marcia, please put this thread on ignore if it bothers you. This thread is about WES and the good he has done the site and those of us that want him back. Your the one that is now making drama here!!!! If you have nothing good to say why say anything at all??? Come on marcia what good did that post of yours do anyway????

Nicolai, et al
Does anyone know if anyone has even asked Wes if HE wants this?
It would prove a disappointment to me if he does.

As much as his participation is desired here by others. I, myself wish he were still here. I wish he had not volunteered to be banned. It is not our decision to make no matter how willing any of us is to fund his potential return. This decision belongs solely to Wes. This needs to be known before any campaign is launched.

If it were myself in Wes's place, I would be deeply touched to be held with such affection. Conversely, I would also be mortified to know that my prodigal return had to be bought and paid for.