Ed Clark,don't buy frogs from him!

What kind of water did you use in the enclosure?

Originally Posted by RJK890

You were expecting Ed to give you money back for the frog, and necro(which may not have even been worth having done, for accuracy reasons?)
He honored the TOS by sending out a replacement frog after the first one died. This frog arrived alive, done deal! So you do hold him accountable, and would like him to honor his guarantee because he stated to another dissatisfied customer that if an acute death took place and was not the customers fault that he would honor his guarantee.
However, He does feel that the death of this frog was the customers fault. Is it really "the moral thing to do" for a seller to continue to ship out free animals at his/her own expense until the customer learns how to keep them alive? No comment on this one. No comment on this one either. Well, if you would not accept another replacement animal from him(which would be over and above anything that should be expected from him at this point,) and don't expect to be refunded monetarily because he has honored his live arrival guarantee, there is no way for Ed to compensate you or make this right with you. Not that he actually owes you anything, or needs to make anything right in this case, but there is nothing he can do not to have a dissatisfied customer. I guess this is just a case of "you can't please all the people, all the time."

I still agree with Bobby(Varnyard,) that the pictures of the living frog and the one of the dead frog appear to be different animals. It also does not appear that Kelly ever changed the soaking wet paper towels like she said she did. Maybe, I have just been hanging out on the BOI too much though.

Ed, even though you handled this sale as professionally as anybody could, and the frog that arrived alive appears to be healthy, it probably would not hurt to get a few of your frogs checked out just to make sure they don't have Septic problems.

Again, if the pictures do not look the same it's because of the shed rests on hera and the secretions in between.
I do not have the desire to go out of my way financially and in my typical time constraints to find a way to make Ed look bad.
The purpose of this thread is to advise the public about his business practices.
Yes, when I got the results back and found out she was sick I was angry. I do feel like he owes me my money back BUT I am aware that no contractual aggreement was made and he honored the live arrival guarantee only. I know that I won't see that money or so much as an apology for ignoring me completely for almost a week.
I do not feel that he is at all professional or has the common courtesy to respond to questions from customers. I cannot imagine going into a store and having the manager turn their back and refuse to speak to a customer. It is easier to do online.
I will not purchase an animal online from anyone because this is my lesson learned and as stated I don't make the same mistake twice.
This is to help other people.
I know that you cannot satisfy all of the people all of the time, I don't expect that at all. I did expect human decency, not name calling.

Originally Posted by pfan151

What kind of water did you use in the enclosure?

Dechlorinated tap water, reptisafe.

Originally Posted by Goblinmatt

I also dont agree with asking him to pay for the necropsy..

If you take a look at my new post here, ed replaced a frog of mine that got banged up during shipping. I dont believe he is trying to scam you out of a frog in anyway.

Matt, did you ask your parents about testing the injured frog that you got from Ed?
Did you specifically ask for an uninjured ornate?
Did you freeze the first one like Ed suggested you should?

Originally Posted by Ed Clark

That sarcastic statement shows you know nothing about selling and shipping amphibians!

Most will offer no guarantees at all, I will guarantee live arrival and have replaced many frogs that die in transit.

The most important thing a new frog owner should do is tons of research before they purchase a frog, a person like that will almost always be successful in keeping a frog.

Kelly Brown on the other hand chose to do her research after that frog was sitting in a bad environment.

Scroll back and read where she said she was trying to TONG feed a tree frog with pieces of worms!

Did I miss something? I coulda sworn that some of the dates on the emails that you posted had earlier dates than the arrival of the animal?

This popped up on another forum,one that Kelly had posted a link to on a previous post.Poses some interesting questions.I do believe Ed honored his TOS,but it appears that all is not well with that frog,previous to her receiving it.This would lend itself to the idea that maybe she receive another frog,or a refund for the frog alone.It was her idea to do the necropsy,but some communication from Ed would've helped,because he clearly admits he received her PM's and emails.
Just my humble opinion.I also agree that frogs are very delicate and it is a shame because they are beautiful creatures.I think the hobby will learn more about some of these pathogens as they become more widespread in both the wild and in captive populations.I do have some primary experience with this as an importer.I would be very concerned if I were Ed and any others who received frogs from that group


Jay Willis
Internet>Frogs


Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 2588
Location: The Mouse House!
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I said I was going to stay out of this, but sence it's turning into a pissing contest, I went ahead and did a little snooping in the necorpsy!

I took a copy of the report that K412 posted and sent it to My contact at the zoo to see what He thought. We he's more of a reptile guy, so He send it to "Jen" which happens to be the top herpetologist in the country right now.

Heres what the returned e-mail said!

Hey Jay, Jen looked the results over and came up with hepatitis as the main problem; many of the other comments indicate secondary problems that are common to hepatitis.

This is easy to pass on to the rest of your collection and should be treated as highly contagious.

Hope it had been quarantined or the entire collection is susceptible, once they have it not much you can do, it can be detected with x-rays but is expensive.

Good luck



Nick Clark, Senior Reptile Keeper

Central Florida Zoo

P.O. Box 470409

Lake Monroe, Fl. 32747

So what it comes down to is Someone has got alot of work ahead of them.

If it came from PetSmart, they would have pulled all their frogs off the shelf by now, but if it's Ed's, God help anyone who got a frog from him sence then.
_________________

Originally Posted by deborahbroadus

Why wouldn't they let you post their name? Why would it even be a factor? I would think (yeah, I have been wrong before, but I will STILL bring up issues that I have a problem with) that if you made a major sale like that it would be in your favor to be able to name drop and you would not need to ask permission.

For example, if I made a sale to a major BP breeder, you betcha I would advertise it..it's good rep points. I wouldn't know of any buyer that would not let the seller use their name as a "previous" customer reference.

Deborah - I have a few zoos and nature centers that I supply with inverts as well as some of the more exotic frogs, as they can't find the time or manpower to breed them in house. There is a lot of work getting some species to breed, and it's all very easy, but very time consuming. All of them have asked for confidentiality so it doesn't appear that they are unable to breed them themselves.

Since I'm posting anyway here's my .02 -
Frog arrived outwardly healthy and alive. Ed is not at fault in any way. This time.

Damp enclosure didn't kill it. It's a shame, but sometimes frogs just die without any outward signs. As for the parasite load/bacterial load issues, they could very well be in the normal range for a two week dead frog - refrigerated or not - only an amphibian specialists would know for sure, as even the average herp vet is mostly clueless when dealing with 'phibs.

Originally Posted by marcus q

This popped up on another forum,one that Kelly had posted a link to on a previous post.Poses some interesting questions.I do believe Ed honored his TOS,but it appears that all is not well with that frog,previous to her receiving it.This would lend itself to the idea that maybe she receive another frog,or a refund for the frog alone.It was her idea to do the necropsy,but some communication from Ed would've helped,because he clearly admits he received her PM's and emails.
Just my humble opinion.I also agree that frogs are very delicate and it is a shame because they are beautiful creatures.I think the hobby will learn more about some of these pathogens as they become more widespread in both the wild and in captive populations.I do have some primary experience with this as an importer.I would be very concerned if I were Ed and any others who received frogs from that group


Jay Willis
Internet>Frogs


Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 2588
Location: The Mouse House!
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I said I was going to stay out of this, but sence it's turning into a pissing contest, I went ahead and did a little snooping in the necorpsy!

I took a copy of the report that K412 posted and sent it to My contact at the zoo to see what He thought. We he's more of a reptile guy, so He send it to "Jen" which happens to be the top herpetologist in the country right now.

Heres what the returned e-mail said!

Hey Jay, Jen looked the results over and came up with hepatitis as the main problem; many of the other comments indicate secondary problems that are common to hepatitis.

This is easy to pass on to the rest of your collection and should be treated as highly contagious.

Hope it had been quarantined or the entire collection is susceptible, once they have it not much you can do, it can be detected with x-rays but is expensive.

Good luck



Nick Clark, Senior Reptile Keeper

Central Florida Zoo

P.O. Box 470409

Lake Monroe, Fl. 32747

So what it comes down to is Someone has got alot of work ahead of them.

If it came from PetSmart, they would have pulled all their frogs off the shelf by now, but if it's Ed's, God help anyone who got a frog from him sence then.
_________________

Maybe not...if Ed posts the name of the Zoo that did all the tests on the frogs that he sold them and those tests came back clear.

.........Waiting for him to get permission to post the name so someone can call and inquire.

Originally Posted by Critterfarm

Deborah - I have a few zoos and nature centers that I supply with inverts as well as some of the more exotic frogs, as they can't find the time or manpower to breed them in house. There is a lot of work getting some species to breed, and it's all very easy, but very time consuming. All of them have asked for confidentiality so it doesn't appear that they are unable to breed them themselves.
Since I'm posting anyway here's my .02 -
Frog arrived outwardly healthy and alive. Ed is not at fault in any way. This time.

Damp enclosure didn't kill it. It's a shame, but sometimes frogs just die without any outward signs. As for the parasite load/bacterial load issues, they could very well be in the normal range for a two week dead frog - refrigerated or not - only an amphibian specialists would know for sure, as even the average herp vet is mostly clueless when dealing with 'phibs.

Ok thanks!

Originally Posted by K412

Matt, did you ask your parents about testing the injured frog that you got from Ed?
Did you specifically ask for an uninjured ornate?
Did you freeze the first one like Ed suggested you should?

What does testing the injured frog have to do with anything? I never seriously considered bringing it to the vet due to the cost. And asking my parents? Im 18 and they could care less.


The leg would of been very easy to notice, even if the only time you saw it was when it was being packaged. Why would he go through the trouble of sending me a frog he knew was bad if he exchanged it with no problem?