USARK & Reptile Nation Save 5 of 9 species from FWS Constrictor Rule!

OH MY GOD! There are uneducated, close minded idiots posting comments over there.

Here is my comment. Hopefully it will help the "I don't like snakes" people understand the issue.

First of all, no one in Florida is allowed to buy a burmese python. The ownership of these animals in that stat has been banned for a few years now. Second, this law now makes a person a criminal if they move to another state and want to take their pet with them. They will faced with breaking the law or abandoning their pet. Another point to consider is that competent reptile vets are hard to come by and some people travel to an adjoining state when there pet needs medical care. This law makes that illegal. So people are now going to be forced to neglect their pet since they will be breaking the law to get their pet medical care. This law encourages neglect and abandonment of pets. All of you "I don't like snakes" people step back a minute. Substitute cat, dog, bird, any other animal in the place of snake and you will see why this law is horrible.

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus

If we can't get people to voting on the White House Petition, then we don't hope to get this over turned either, because it won't warrant their attention otherwise. 25,000 needed, we haven't hit 4K yet.

I must have missed something..........

Who is claiming that if 25K signatures are collected, someone will overturn this?

Who is this person or entity that will overturn it?

Originally Posted by WingedWolf

USARK is absolutely dwarfed by the forces it's fighting, and I absolutely do not think they deserve any condemnation for what happened. FWS used a loophole to list 4 species because the estimated economic impact was low enough that those 4 wouldn't require a vote to list, once separated from the other 5.
If it were not for USARK's efforts, they would have listed all 9, because there would have been no one to refute their deliberate underestimation of the economic impact of listing all 9.
USARK is most likely frantically researching what will be necessary to continue the fight. I can only hope that they're up to it. They only have a hope of that if we continue to stand behind them.
They really are our only hope, you know.
We've done well in SOME places fighting these things locally (not so well in others), but the deluge isn't letting up, and that just isn't enough anymore. We need them.

I still must be missing something........

Donna, how exactly did USARK save 5 of 9 species? I have never seen those details outlining what they actually did.

Originally Posted by Skiploder

I must have missed something..........

Who is claiming that if 25K signatures are collected, someone will overturn this?

Who is this person or entity that will overturn it?

I stated the same thing on page 13...25k votes just wont do it...
Travis
Lair of Dragons

Originally Posted by Lair of Dragons

I stated the same thing on page 13...25k votes just wont do it...
Travis
Lair of Dragons

People seem to think that a petition is needed for the USFWS to overturn their own rule change. Even USARK is saying it will do no good.

Instead of empty gestures, maybe the best thing anyone can do is educate themselves on the process. First, what this action was and why the 4 species were affected.

Second, what it means to challenge this in Federal Court, and how said court would view the scientific evidence. This is not the first time an amendment or rule change to the Lacey Act has been challenged. How about looking at the success rate of such challenges?

Third, the costs of such a legal action.

Fourth, what happens if you lose.

Fifth, pay attention to what the USFWS is already saying about what they need to do to get the other 5 species covered by a rule change.

Originally Posted by Skiploder

People seem to think that a petition is needed for the USFWS to overturn their own rule change. Even USARK is saying it will do no good.

Instead of empty gestures, maybe the best thing anyone can do is educate themselves on the process. First, what this action was and why the 4 species were affected.

Second, what it means to challenge this in Federal Court, and how said court would view the scientific evidence. This is not the first time an amendment or rule change to the Lacey Act has been challenged. How about looking at the success rate of such challenges?

Third, the costs of such a legal action.

Fourth, what happens if you lose.

Fifth, pay attention to what the USFWS is already saying about what they need to do to get the other 5 species covered by a rule change.

No, these petitions will not win us this case. What these petitions will do is get more people involved. I have talked to many people who clearly were not aware of the ban. I believe it is a good tool for education at the least.

Originally Posted by mxracer4life

No, these petitions will not win us this case. What these petitions will do is get more people involved. I have talked to many people who clearly were not aware of the ban. I believe it is a good tool for education at the least.

Jeremy:

I guess we can agree to disagree.

A good educational tool educates. This petition states that there is a ban - but we all know the ban is on importation and interstate commerce - right?

Judging from the mixed messages I see on forum to forum, that is not a rhetorical question. Truly, people have no idea what this "ban" is.

A good educational tool would inform people without asking them to performing futile actions. Sending a petition to the White House on a USFWS rule change is futile. Especially when it has been pointed out that (1) the petition isn't gonna change the situation (looky at all the OTHER petitions floating around that site) and (2) the petition runs the real risk of showing other parties exactly what a feeble response we are probably going to generate.

I am all for education and getting people involved. But people tend to have short attention spans. For a short window of time, the reptile community's attention is focused on this, we should not be fooling people into making symbolic gestures that aren't gonna change a damn thing.

In the meantime, Virginia is facing a REAL ban where these letters and petitions would probably do a lot more good.

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Jeremy:

I guess we can agree to disagree.

A good educational tool educates. This petition states that there is a ban - but we all know the ban is on importation and interstate commerce - right?

Judging from the mixed messages I see on forum to forum, that is not a rhetorical question. Truly, people have no idea what this "ban" is.

A good educational tool would inform people without asking them to performing futile actions. Sending a petition to the White House on a USFWS rule change is futile. Especially when it has been pointed out that (1) the petition isn't gonna change the situation (looky at all the OTHER petitions floating around that site) and (2) the petition runs the real risk of showing other parties exactly what a feeble response we are probably going to generate.

I am all for education and getting people involved. But people tend to have short attention spans. For a short window of time, the reptile community's attention is focused on this, we should not be fooling people into making symbolic gestures that aren't gonna change a damn thing.

In the meantime, Virginia is facing a REAL ban where these letters and petitions would probably do a lot more good.

Education occurs in steps. People seeing these petitions is a "step", to spark there interest, or at least we hope. But I do get where your coming from. Just wanted you to know the reason why I continue to post these links.

Originally Posted by Skiploder

I must have missed something..........

Who is claiming that if 25K signatures are collected, someone will overturn this?

Who is this person or entity that will overturn it?

You need to NOT read so deeply into my post. That ain't what I said.

Let me help, it takes AT LEAST 25,000 signatures, for them to even look at it. Of course more draws more attention. But without AT LEAST 25K, they simply delete the thing.

Nowhere anywhere in this thread did I say they WILL overturn anything. I said we have no hope of it happening, unless the above occurs.

Originally Posted by crotalusadamanteus

You need to NOT read so deeply into my post. That ain't what I said.

Let me help, it takes AT LEAST 25,000 signatures, for them to even look at it. Of course more draws more attention. But without AT LEAST 25K, they simply delete the thing.

Nowhere anywhere in this thread did I say they WILL overturn anything. I said we have no hope of it happening, unless the above occurs.

I read it clearly. The implication is that if you get 25K signatures, there is hope of overturning the rule change.

We have no hope of it happening even if it does occur. Who is going to overturn it?

Even USARK has stated as much. So again - why the petition?