Where is.....

This thread is "WHERE IS WES" and concerns him and his friends here. If you arent one of his friends and dont want to help him out (if he so wishes) please, please let us have our thread to discuss him without all the other nonsense.

Nicholas, do you think bringing Wes back to Fauna would help WES, or help FAUNA? How would coming back to Fauna "help him out"?

Originally Posted by ms_terese

Nicholas, do you think bringing Wes back to Fauna would help WES, or help FAUNA? How would coming back to Fauna "help him out"?

Ask yourself that the next time your on the BOI and watch sonmeone defending thier position on a deal they made and you felt they were taking advantage of the other person and you didnt knoow how to go about bringing the truth out of them.
There are only a few people that are good at pulling and tearing the truth out of people, there was always the "ferret" to help out with this and "WES' was always right there with him. There are now a few others that are getting good as well like DAND and Chris that seem to be good at hitting the right spot to get to the bottom of things but why not have one of the best help us out here???

There are now a few others that are getting good as well like DAND and Chris that seem to be good at hitting the right spot to get to the bottom of things but why not have one of the best help us out here???

Because Wes' methodologies and tactics to do that were not conducive to the rule structure here, which resulted in a lot of annoyance and $$$ for him. Why should Wes suffer to help people here? He had already paid a membership fee, as others have, for the enjoyment of the site; he has other options for checking out others before business transactions; he has other venues through which he can communicate with the friends he made here. Why should he (or anyone else on his behalf, for that matter) pay additional money to benefit Fauna?

Originally Posted by ms_terese

Why should Wes suffer to help people here? He had already paid a membership fee, as others have, for the enjoyment of the site; he has other options for checking out others before business transactions; he has other venues through which he can communicate with the friends he made here. Why should he (or anyone else on his behalf, for that matter) pay additional money to benefit Fauna?

Why don't we wait and let WES decide that. i will now answer questions that only he can answer.
I think maybe that the people offering money think he was a asset to fauna and it is worth having him with us as a community. The site most assuredly has a personality of its own. It is the uniqueness of all the members and thier personalities combined that make up the combined personality we know and like as fauna. It isnt just a web page with words on it to read. It is a community where feelings are shared and felt by others, where grand adventures are shared by others so we can in some way enjoy thier adventures ourselves. It is a place to share our accomplishments and our biggest disappointments and seek comfort from others to help us through the difficult times. It is a place to meet others and make new friends that enjoy the same hobby as we do. It is a place where we can learn from each other to help us grow as hobbiests and breeders to insure the continued survival of our hobby and passion in reptiles. Each individual with a little knowledge and experience is an asset to this site, And any individual that is willing to go the extra mile to help us rid ourselves of the people that ruin it for the good people in the hobby are the most important people that we should be trying to keep here.
I hope that answers your question.

Originally Posted by ms_terese

Why should he (or anyone else on his behalf, for that matter) pay additional money to benefit Fauna?

That really is the $64 question. I guess it comes down to value. All of our "discretionary" spending decisions come down to that. Is what we get for our money (or time) worth what we spend/invest? What pleasure Wes, or anyone else, received for his money is balanced against the cost. For a $10 fine now and then Wes would most likely have fun outing some bad guys and so on. For $1000 he would be out of his gourd to even consider it in my opinion.

Originally Posted by ms_terese

Because Wes' methodologies and tactics to do that were not conducive to the rule structure here, which resulted in a lot of annoyance and $$$ for him. Why should Wes suffer to help people here? He had already paid a membership fee, as others have, for the enjoyment of the site; he has other options for checking out others before business transactions; he has other venues through which he can communicate with the friends he made here. Why should he (or anyone else on his behalf, for that matter) pay additional money to benefit Fauna?

Just to keep this in proper perspective, I would like to point out that Wes's actions resulted in a LOT of annoyance for other people as well. If his actions had only been directed at persons in the BOI that were likely bad guys in sheep's clothing, then I doubt his actions would have become the problem that they did. Ritchie Luna was sanctioned by me to do the job as "ferret" in the BOI. I cannot recall affording that leniency to anyone else, nor have I been asked to do so. Anyone is welcome to try to get to the bottom of the truth, but are warned that the mannerisms you feel are necessary to obtain that goal might be more then are tolerable by many other people, including myself, on this site.

Seriously folks, call up the display of Wes's warnings and take a look yourself. This pretense of trying to make Wes Pollock into the injured Mr. Innocent here is laughable to the extreme. I specifically made the warning system an audit trail just for this sort of confrontation over mine or the moderator's actions, so PLEASE avail yourself of that information.

"methodologies and tactics" of Wes Pollock? Interesting definition of his actions, to be certain. But in any event it was unacceptable, he was made aware that it is unacceptable, and he continued anyway.

Do you all just like hearing me repeat myself?

Originally Posted by nicolai

Do you happen to notice a trend in this thread. Everyone keeps coming on this thread to complain about this and question that. Why??? What does it matter to anyone why we want WES back here?? We have the right to our opinion don't we. We aren't talking about WES in all the other forums, we are keeping it here in this thread and it isn't spreading around the site, but yet people are coming on here questioning our motives and questioning Rich's decision on the matter. Isn't it good enough that there are thousands of other threads to spend you time on?? Does everyone need to come on this thread, especially if they are only here to start trouble or complain or question everthing we are doing. Be happy that there is only 1 thread in 1 forum that is being taken up by this issue and stick to the thousands of other threads if this one bothers you.
If I brought up WES in the leo forum, or the welcome forum of the lonely hearts forum I would be jumped on instantly for bringing up something that didn't belong there or nobody wanted to talk about there. This thread is "WHERE IS WES" and concerns him and his friends here. If you aren't one of his friends and dint want to help him out (if he so wishes) please, please let us have our thread to discuss him without all the other nonsense.

I am not really certain who this is being addressed to.

This particular thread is not an exclusive meeting place for the "Only Those Who Want Wes Back No Matter What" club is it?

Why, then, can't any other member ask questons? If there is a list of acceptable questions and unacceptable questions I am very interested in seeing it.

Since I am interested in Wes, and this is the one thread in the one forum about "Where is Wes", I'm in the right place, right? I am still interested in hearing answers to my question about why other contact venues are not good enough. Cause in my mind they are. If maintaining a relationship with Wes is what's important. Obviously the closer a person is to him, socially, the more contact options that person would have.

Admittedly, I am prone to pessimism when it comes to human behavior. I, personally do not have hope that Wes will ever be able to just return, drop back in place and pick up from where he left off. That pleasure is over, done, fini. Still, I would not presume to tell anyone that his/her passion to create the possibility is a worthless endeavor. It is just that I have no confidence that it would ultimately prove to be fruitful, lasting or satisfying to the "crusaders".

I would rather be proved wrong in this expectation.

Originally Posted by Jim O

That really is the $64 question. I guess it comes down to value. All of our "discretionary" spending decisions come down to that. Is what we get for our money (or time) worth what we spend/invest? What pleasure Wes, or anyone else, received for his money is balanced against the cost. For a $10 fine now and then Wes would most likely have fun outing some bad guys and so on. For $1000 he would be out of his gourd to even consider it in my opinion.

Absolutely!

And as indicated above, the motivator for paying any such funds TO Fauna, from that perspective, has nothing at all to do with benefiting Fauna at all. The money paid is for the value someone hopes to get out of their payment. In other words, what's in it for me if I pay my money? Anyone paying a fine here, I am certain, is NOT motivated at all by the thought of such money benefiting this site. The motivator is more along the lines of "is it worth it to me to come back on to the site?"

Initially someone will likely pay for a membership with the intentions of helping out this site, others might do so for some sort of status thing. But once the fines are imposed, then the motivation changes, I believe. And in most cases, I have little doubt that the motivation is not altruistic at all.

Just to keep this in proper perspective, I would like to point out that Wes's actions resulted in a LOT of annoyance for other people as well. If his actions had only been directed at persons in the BOI that were likely bad guys in sheep's clothing, then I doubt his actions would have become the problem that they did. Ritchie Luna was sanctioned by me to do the job as "ferret" in the BOI. I cannot recall affording that leniency to anyone else, nor have I been asked to do so. Anyone is welcome to try to get to the bottom of the truth, but are warned that the mannerisms you feel are necessary to obtain that goal might be more then are tolerable by many other people, including myself, on this site.

No argument, Rich. My reply was based only on Nicholas' response that the benefit of having Wes back on Fauna would be on the BOI. I know his behavior crossed the lines on many forums.

Forgive me, but when someone calls me over-reactive, melodramatic, accuses me of purposely "baiting them", and being "frivolous", it doesn't lend much credibility to your apology.

I won't be losing any sleep over your reluctance to accept my apologies. At the same time, I don't blame you. But you came on here being unprovoked personally and insinuated that I was being sarcastic. You did that of your own free will. If you are going to dish out what I perceive to be passive agressive venom, then please learn to take the defensive criticism that ensues.

I simply found your comment about expecting people to be abusing the karma system offensive, plain and simple.

I said that based on the fact that people already have done so. You decided to make it about you. It wasn't.

There are a lot of good people here, and when you randomly start saying things such a that, you must realize it's bound to offend someone.

There was nothing "random" about my statement. Surely you agree since you failed to address the issue of the points that I mentioned without any comments to follow them up. But that is neither here nor there. As far as people being offended by any comments I make, I have no control over that. Most people here subconsciously want to be offended due there biass and dislike for me. It gives them a reason to attack me. I'm used to it. In the end, whether they agree or not, I like to think I'm on the right side of the fence. Is there noone here that you have offended at one time or another?

I'm not trying to get anyone into trouble, just telling you what I felt about your post.

Thank you. Successfully. Was it worth it?

I didn't give you any points, but if I did, I'd sure as heck let you know why. I chose to just tell you outright, as I very rarely give out "red points".

Again, thank you.

And FYI, I haven't spoken to Wes since his "banning"....that would be why I said I miss him. Coaching me......pftht.

Oh no you didn't! How dare you "pftht" me, lol.

Anyway, I do apologize if I seemed abrasive toward you. If you look at my history here, you would understand why I always have my finger on the trigger. Everybody wants to be the guy (or gal) who shoots Billy the Kid. They just don't realize that I'm after him too. Billy the Kid....I am not.